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Author Topic: WDC vs WDSF  (Read 11335 times)
QPO
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« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2013, 08:40:16 AM »

I personally have no problem with either and dance in both comps and adjust accordingly.... I feel there are some on each side theat believe they are right and nothing will convince them to look at other ideas.  But I am with MZ
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millitiz
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« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2013, 09:38:04 PM »

I think you put that very well MZ.  the biggest problem with two organizations is the clashes - and we've seen a LOT of that.  a bit of competition between them might be a good thing but it can get out of hand - such as with the boycotts and attempts to ban or sabotage the other group. 

If they can 'live and let live' then I do agree. 

Very good point. I think that a bit of "live and let live" is good from the business point of view, but it seems to me that it is an ideological difference - and that turns into a whole new situation. In this case, the mentality becomes "either you or me," and there is no more compromises.
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phoenix13
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« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2013, 11:07:36 PM »

I personally have no problem with either and dance in both comps and adjust accordingly.... I feel there are some on each side theat believe they are right and nothing will convince them to look at other ideas.  But I am with MZ



Yup.  The stuff that causes war. Sad.
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Dona nobis pacem.
Rugby
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« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2013, 11:09:14 PM »

What I worry about is the profit factor.  The WDSF is non-profit whereas the WDC is a for profit group.  The real danger coming up is that you are going to see much more Pro/Am with high costs, so of course profit, compared to amateur couple so the amateur couple categories will suffer and the numbers go down.
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
phoenix13
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« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2013, 02:06:44 AM »

Hmm.  Why do you think that pro-am will grow?  (I happen to agree.  Just wondering why you think so. Cool  )
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Rugby
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« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2013, 07:16:27 PM »

With Pro/Am it is considered a cash cow money maker compared to Am/Am.  The Pros get big bucks and the competitions charge to the hilt and have the "packages" that are often overinflated prices where the Am part of the couple is nickel and dimed for everything.  When I left Pro/Am my dad stayed for one more year.  We both went to the same competition, I danced 12 dances to his 10, he had to buy tickets for all the events and first row as part of his package that the competition had, whereas I went to only the ones I wanted to and bought the seats I wanted.  We ate pretty much the same meals (he had to buy the package meals which were crazy in cost whereas I didn't).  He did Pro/Am and I did Am/Am.  My bill was $250 for the weekend, sharing a room.  His was$1200.00 also sharing a room.  How much did a Pro or the competition make from me or the other Am/Amers?  Peanuts to what they made off my dad and all the other Pro/Amers.  I am not against the WDC at all but they are for profit and the WDSF is not.  If you were a business would you not also want to make money and wouldn't you also rather have the customers you are going to make the big bucks off of compared to the ones who you won't be.  Also with Pro/Am they can have them do a plethora of dances but in Amateur couple it is usually the multi-dances so you will get only two to four entry fees instead of the 30 to  80 that many Pro/Am people do. 
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
Rugby
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« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2013, 07:20:41 PM »

I'll find out this week what happened over in China and what the WDSF plans on doing.  Getting their heads out of their butts would be the first option they should go for.  They have to re-organize and realize that their members are also their customers and treat them as such.  Turning away and just putting complaints down as bitching and being in too big of a battle of egos to notice that their ship is sinking has created huge riffs and problems.  Time to either get people in that will put the time, effort and care into making the organization better and waking up to smell the coffee or soon I will say that they will not be around in that big of a capacity to have to care.   
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
phoenix13
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« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2013, 08:12:48 AM »

Sounds like there are some major issues with both organizations.  Sad

I thought both orgs were for-profit, though. *confused*
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QPO
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« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2013, 02:54:50 AM »

I think they are not for profit groups. one of the criteria  for such organisations as any monies should be about improving the sport/art depending on which side of the fence you are.
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phoenix13
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« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2013, 03:36:22 AM »

thanks.

when R gets back, I'll have to ask her for some clarification.  It's clear that she has some information that I don't.   I would like to get to the bottom of what is going on with these two groups.
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elisedance
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« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2013, 05:54:18 AM »

'not for  profit' does not, of course, mean that no one is making money, its just that there is no net gain.  the easy way round it is to pay high salaries.

I think all 'not for profit' organizations should reveal the salaries of their employees.  Here in Canada the income of all government-supported salaries over a cut off (200K) are listed on a web page.
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Rugby
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« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2014, 11:18:05 PM »

WDSF is a not for profit group run by Amateur volunteers for Amateurs whereas the WDC is a for profit mainly run by dance teachers.
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
elisedance
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« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2014, 04:34:41 AM »

WDSF is a not for profit group run by Amateur volunteers for Amateurs ...

Is it really?  I had no idea - the people who run it are entirely unpaid?? 
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

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elisedance
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« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2014, 05:00:37 AM »

I'm sorry to admit but I never looked this up before Sad but just did now.  The WDSF has its history and structure documented on its site:

http://www.worlddancesport.org/WDSF/History/How_It_All_Started

According to this its an entirely democratic organization with openly elected (limited term) leadership, including its president, and governing body. However, although there are 4 year elections, Detlef Hegemann was the president for 33 so I guess there are no term limits (usually added to stop an organization becoming static).  It would be great if they added a two-term limit to keep the organization dynamic.  I can see no indication whether the leadership is paid or not.  It would seem hard to run such a large organization if they were not.

On paper it looks great - but I think it a shame that there has been so much friction with the other international bodies - I can't judge this as I know too little about it but maybe the WDSF (and WDC) could learn more from the Freedom to dance movement...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Rugby
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« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2014, 10:56:17 PM »

In the long run you need an organization to help with the structure of the comps etc. and to create and keep the rules.  You also need it to keep track of what is going on and who is doing it as well as the results etc.  Either we need a third organization or clean up the two we have. 
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
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