Opinions on the Viennese Waltz Steps

[elisedance]

Spiral - thanks for putting it so well - I feel the same... Seems that VW is destined to be a QS-three step!

[Dora-Satya Veda]

I'm not against dances evolving and changing with time. A bit of exploration and experimentation is good, that's the only way you can discover something better. But having said that, VW was one of my favorite dances to watch. I loved it's simplicity and loved watching dancers fly across the floor uninterrupted (I secretly wish fleckerls would be outlawed).

I wonder if this means the end of the simple VW. If everyone else is doing fancy steps, can you still win doing basics? Or would you have to follow everyone else to be competitive?

I feel very conflicted about this...

I would say that you can still win with good quality dancing. From what I have seen of the "new steps" none of them are done to the quality that should win. I would go as far as to say that the step are totally out of character of the dance and should be marked last if danced.

DSV

[elisedance]

I'm not against dances evolving and changing with time. A bit of exploration and experimentation is good, that's the only way you can discover something better. But having said that, VW was one of my favorite dances to watch. I loved it's simplicity and loved watching dancers fly across the floor uninterrupted (I secretly wish fleckerls would be outlawed).

I wonder if this means the end of the simple VW. If everyone else is doing fancy steps, can you still win doing basics? Or would you have to follow everyone else to be competitive?

I feel very conflicted about this...

I would say that you can still win with good quality dancing. From what I have seen of the "new steps" none of them are done to the quality that should win. I would go as far as to say that the step are totally out of character of the dance and should be marked last if danced.

DSV

Interesting.  DSV: Can you conceive of any steps that could be added and actually enhance VW?

[Dora-Satya Veda]

Interesting.  DSV: Can you conceive of any steps that could be added and actually enhance VW?

I would say that "Spin-Pivots" and "Change Step" done continuously would be in character with the VW. There might also be some steps from American Style that would work provided the can be done in closed position. I think it would be an idea to look at American Style for ideas as that has been around for a long time and they tried and has found out what works and what doesn't work. I think that would be better than trying to reinvent the wheel so to speak.

DSV

[drj]

At the Dance Legends show this weekend, the "new" Viennese choreography showed up. In a showdance, it was interesting to watch. I still can't see how it could be incorporated successfully into a competition, but I can understand why dancers who think of themselves as "athletes" rather than dancers would find it appealing. You get to do more, and more interesting, choreography, just as Smooth dancers have done for ages.

The truly odd Viennese Waltz moment at Dance Legends was danced to a piece of music in 4/4 time. Not 12/8, which happens often, but  4/4. I found it disturbing.

[QPO]

I think I have mentioned this before I am not against change but in the VW I dont see the advantages of doing so.

[QPO]

when we were in Europe I saw more of the new steps being incorporated in the WDSF competitions. I am yet to be convinced that they are needed.

[elisedance]

when we were in Europe I saw more of the new steps being incorporated in the WDSF competitions. I am yet to be convinced that they are needed.

But think of all the extra lessons that will be sold

[QPO]

well that is always on the cards as well.

 

[ttd]

Well, as someone who dances both american and international styles, I really don't see what's the big deal about at least attempting to expand VW choreography. We have some closed-hold work in our american VW. I guarantee you that we do more than reverses and naturals. And we do it on the competition floor. So I am not buying the idea that standard dancers will be somehow unable to make it look good.

[QPO]

Well, as someone who dances both american and international styles, I really don't see what's the big deal about at least attempting to expand VW choreography. We have some closed-hold work in our american VW. I guarantee you that we do more than reverses and naturals. And we do it on the competition floor. So I am not buying the idea that standard dancers will be somehow unable to make it look good.

Oh I don't think it will be about the ability to make it look good, what will the etiquette be, with those traveling around the floor doing naturals reverses and change steps to have to avoid someone who will all of a sudden stop to do a new move? Should the new move also be done in the middle like the flekerl  (sorry not sure if the spelling is correct).

[ttd]

Well, as someone who dances both american and international styles, I really don't see what's the big deal about at least attempting to expand VW choreography. We have some closed-hold work in our american VW. I guarantee you that we do more than reverses and naturals. And we do it on the competition floor. So I am not buying the idea that standard dancers will be somehow unable to make it look good.

Oh I don't think it will be about the ability to make it look good, what will the etiquette be, with those traveling around the floor doing naturals reverses and change steps to have to avoid someone who will all of a sudden stop to do a new move? Should the new move also be done in the middle like the flekerl  (sorry not sure if the spelling is correct).

I don't really care. Whatever works to avoid the collision, I guess. Even now, couples who travel more have to get around couples who travel less while doing same reverses and naturals. Somehow they figure out how to do it (at least the good ones do).

[elisedance]

Q raises an excellent point.  Up to now VW has been a dance in which the dancer pretty much knew where everyone else is - either proceeding (on theedge) or doing figures (in the middle).  That means that even though fast, floorcraft was secondary to grace and elegance.  Contrast that to QS in which has its crazy and unpredictable element in which floorcraft remains a major factor- often at the cost of ease and elegance.

Adding the steps basically makes VW into a three-beat QS and I think thats what I dislike the most.  IMO we've lost something that defines what Standard dancing is all about.

[QPO]

Well, as someone who dances both american and international styles, I really don't see what's the big deal about at least attempting to expand VW choreography. We have some closed-hold work in our american VW. I guarantee you that we do more than reverses and naturals. And we do it on the competition floor. So I am not buying the idea that standard dancers will be somehow unable to make it look good.

Oh I don't think it will be about the ability to make it look good, what will the etiquette be, with those traveling around the floor doing naturals reverses and change steps to have to avoid someone who will all of a sudden stop to do a new move? Should the new move also be done in the middle like the flekerl  (sorry not sure if the spelling is correct).

I don't really care. Whatever works to avoid the collision, I guess. Even now, couples who travel more have to get around couples who travel less while doing same reverses and naturals. Somehow they figure out how to do it (at least the good ones do).

I know that is true but you still have an element of which direction they are going to move around the floor. I have seen some of the new steps and they do their fancy bit into the corner and then people try to pass them and they come out.. looks messy. I am not saying they should not but still best to do it iin the middle and keep out of peoples way.

[ttd]

Well, as someone who dances both american and international styles, I really don't see what's the big deal about at least attempting to expand VW choreography. We have some closed-hold work in our american VW. I guarantee you that we do more than reverses and naturals. And we do it on the competition floor. So I am not buying the idea that standard dancers will be somehow unable to make it look good.

Oh I don't think it will be about the ability to make it look good, what will the etiquette be, with those traveling around the floor doing naturals reverses and change steps to have to avoid someone who will all of a sudden stop to do a new move? Should the new move also be done in the middle like the flekerl  (sorry not sure if the spelling is correct).

I don't really care. Whatever works to avoid the collision, I guess. Even now, couples who travel more have to get around couples who travel less while doing same reverses and naturals. Somehow they figure out how to do it (at least the good ones do).

I know that is true but you still have an element of which direction they are going to move around the floor. I have seen some of the new steps and they do their fancy bit into the corner and then people try to pass them and they come out.. looks messy. I am not saying they should not but still best to do it iin the middle and keep out of peoples way.

Happens all the time in other dances. I just don't see what's the big deal about it.