Opinions on the Viennese Waltz Steps

[Some guy]

Watch from the 3:30 minute mark to watch a good demonstration of the new steps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCVc_1VQXh4&feature=relmfu

Here are the links to the rest of the lecture in order (the link above is from the second link below):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpJpX6ew0LY&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCVc_1VQXh4&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u3qA8HMv2k&feature=relmfu

Any thoughts?

[cornutt]

Hmm... have to study it a bit this weekend, when I have more time.  I did spot a couple of back spot turns and what looked like a check and pivot.

[QPO]

I have watched all the you tube links and they are very hard to hear what they are trying to say the audio is shocking. I am not quite sure what they were trying to tell us.

But it looks like watz steps done to VW timing and I personally don't like it, it changes the concept of the dance. I would think that lower level dancers if they would tryto do these steps would have lots of crashes on the floor.

Not sure why they are tying to change the dance. Not that I am opposed to change, but not for change sake....

[Some guy]

OMG QPO!  I agree with you fully.  I'm also afraid of the potential new injuries this high speed Waltz can cause.  The Slow Waltz was causing enough damage for a lot of folks.  Is it just me or does it look like a satire of the Waltz?  If someone told me it was a joke I would've LOL'd or at least SQM'd (Smile Quietly to Myself... which is what we're usually doing even 'though we say we LOL'd).  After watching the video I was more like OMG WTF BBQ!    

[Some guy]

Was it just me or were there at least 3 instances that the world champion amateur couple that demonstrated this were completely off time because they were trying to catch up with the music?   

[ttd]

Maybe it's because I also do smooth, and not only standard, but I don't see anything particularly heinous here. If you look at smooth VW, especially on the pro level, you might even see something similar to what these guys did in the demo, i.e. the ronde move.

[QPO]

I think that is another mute point that it then becomes smooth, where the VW is done in International style. I don't see why it has to cross over. We have our Own quick VW in the NV style but it is done in a sequence of steps and everyone is going in the same direction.

http://www.youtube.com/user/martinpoel#p/c/40A3DEAAFC092929/30/cB5vaGFrsUc

Here is an example from one of our Top Professionals.....it is a combination of all the dances that are done in the slow VW style

but it goes into some other styles of NV Tango and Foxtrot

[ttd]

The way I see it, it doesn't become smooth until you leave closed hold. So the point those guys are trying to make - that we should add more steps into VW - nothing particularly wrong with that. Patterns are becoming more and more shared between dances (we have a gold group which we dance in W, T and F, and we could do it in Q as well if we felt like it), VW was the slowest to absorb changes, so it's just catching up to the remaining 4.

[QPO]

does it need change. why did the other dances change was it to make it easier to dance?I like the VW the way it is as everyone is doing the same and then you can make a good comparison between couples. sometimes I find if you are watching a DVD of dancing and dont have the sound on can you really tell what the dances are (except for Tango) the choices of music crosses over and you a=have waltz done on foxtrot music and visa versa.

I am not against change as dancing is chaning all the time but for an improvement of a style and that is yet to be determined

[ttd]

I don't think other dances changed to make them easier. Rather, I think, someone decided to try a group they usually did in, say, waltz in another dance (tango, for example), and it worked, so they kept doing it and if it looked cool, it caught on. So, you get to the point when you can dance same choreography in multiple dances and it's just the styling and technique which makes it look different. For example, as someone pointed out earlier in this thread, some of the stuff in the demo looked like they were waltz steps done to vw tempo. I think because those were originally waltz steps. In context of VW, some worked better than others. But I don't see anything inherently wrong with finding out which ones will work and which one won't.

[drj]

Was it just me or were there at least 3 instances that the world champion amateur couple that demonstrated this were completely off time because they were trying to catch up with the music?   

Don't know if it was that they were off time, or that I'm just not used to watching Smooth choreography in closed hold. And they're not used to doing it. And they're having a very tough time with it. And it's showing off their flaws, which I imagine they probably don't like. Smooth is very unforgiving, especially in closed hold, where you don't have the luxury of arm styling to distract the eye. I just can't understand why the WDSF would want to make Standard more like Smooth. Well, perhaps b/c Smooth is so very physically demanding, in ways that are different from Standard (yes, I just said that to see if anyone's paying attention).

As Smooth, I don't mind it; kind of like it, actually, but then, I'm a Smooth dancer. I just can't take it seriously as Standard Viennese Waltz. It looks like it would be fun to do, but very, very taxing; they've taken out all the things about Viennese that make it like flying, and put in stuff that makes it stand still. How dumb is that?

One more Euro/Smooth point: I notice that Augusto Schiavo is promoting a pro-am comp in Paris, and having Smooth and Rhythm categories as well as International style. I find this interesting.

[QPO]

Not sure who is trying to introduce the steps is it WDSF or WDC?

[cornutt]

One more Euro/Smooth point: I notice that Augusto Schiavo is promoting a pro-am comp in Paris, and having Smooth and Rhythm categories as well as International style. I find this interesting.

That is interesting.  I'll be curious to find out how many takers they get for that.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought "why are they doing slow waltz steps at Viennese tempo?"...

[cornutt]

The other thing that jumped out at me is that the man sure does bob up and down a lot.  I've been taught to not use so much rise and fall in VW.  Is this the style in International?

[cdnsalsanut]

Not from what I'm being taught...