partnerdanceonline.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 28, 2014, 02:20:32 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
A lot of people are visiting Smiley Smiley
Undecided Undecided but not many are posting....
please say hi Cheesy
116515 Posts in 1857 Topics by 223 Members
Latest Member: dancewithmetoronto
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  partnerdanceonline.com
|-+  Partner Dancing
| |-+  Partner Dances
| | |-+  Ballroom dance -advanced (Moderators: Rugby, cornutt, ZPomeroy)
| | | |-+  technique vs. expression
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 Print
Author Topic: technique vs. expression  (Read 5766 times)
pruthe
Bronze
*
Posts: 274



« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2011, 03:24:44 PM »

Wow, a lot of Bruce Lee quotes!  I also agree goal is to see no technique at all since one should be so good at it. I'd say at my level of dancing, I'm early phase, so just trying to learn to cleanly execute steps so in good position to later to do expression. Some may read posts here and think technique may not be that important. I think technique has its place, along with expression and anything else.
Logged

"It's not what you do, but how you do it."

"The Truth in Ballroom Dance is found in the Basic steps."

A.S.
Dora-Satya Veda
Gold Star
***
Posts: 6871


« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2011, 10:18:24 PM »

like cooking with a recipe or without....you always start with a recipe but the more you do it you remember it and don’t use it again..

Yes, I like that. When you first start you need the recipe to make things work as you get more experienced then you start to cook free of any recipes. You know what to do without having to worry or think about it. You just do it. That should be the goal with good dancing just do it without thinking of the rules, technique or principles.

DSV
Logged

"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
Dora-Satya Veda
Gold Star
***
Posts: 6871


« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2011, 10:27:51 PM »

Could it be that we've got technique and dancing bass-ackwards?  I don't think you have to learn technique in order to dance.  On the contrary, I think you have to dance before people can observe your technique.  If the technique is not good, then they can change your dancing.  However, at no point do I think the focus should even be on doing technique.  There's the obvious limitation that you can only focus on one, maybe two, technical aspects at a time if you're actually trying to "do" technique.  I think you have to dance it, and then let others observe the technique happen.  I don't think it's possible to "do" technique.  

Take timing and counting for example: it's pretty impossible to dance while counting.  Your weight will never be where it should.  However, you can move through the beats, which is how our bodies naturally enjoy moving to music, the way you feel it, and then let someone observe, count it, and then comment on your musicality.  Same with footwork: you can dance your body the way you want to, see where your feet land, and then have an observer (coach/teacher) tell you if you had good footwork.  If your feet didn't close properly, then your body didn't have enough lateral motion to force your feet together.  However, what I see is students learning for hours the "footwork" and their bodies are nowhere near the position it's supposed to be to cause the footwork to happen.  I've been on that side of the fence and it hasn't been fun.  It's only within the last few months that I learned that a lock step is not a step at all.  It's just the angular motion of the body that causes our feet to lock.  If the feet didn't lock, it's not because I was  doing the technique wrong, it was because I wasn't dancing my body right.  So technique, I believe, always takes second place to dancing.  

This was one of the biggest lessons I learned in the original "Quantal Shift" thread.

My teacher would often should us the end result of what he wanted and then not talk about it ever again. Let’s say he would show us what a nice closure of feet would look like but then never talk about it again. He would basically show us the possibilities. He would then start talking about the action needed in the body to create the end result of closing the feet. So the doing part of the dancing.

DSV
Logged

"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
drj
Bronze
*
Posts: 334



« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2011, 07:11:40 AM »


My teacher would often should us the end result of what he wanted and then not talk about it ever again. Let’s say he would show us what a nice closure of feet would look like but then never talk about it again. He would basically show us the possibilities. He would then start talking about the action needed in the body to create the end result of closing the feet. So the doing part of the dancing.

DSV

Mine will do the same.  In fact, he's done exactly what DSV describes, when getting me to close my feet. For that matter, I'm not sure he ever teaches me to close my feet; he teaches me what to do with my body, and shazam, my feet close.  It's up to me to go to him for help when I get start to drive myself nuts over a technical issue, a lesson I wish I had learned sooner. Ask, and ye shall receive; why make myself crazy over a particular technical question? Just freakin' ASK.

I was beside myself over a particular kind of movement for a few weeks, could not "get" it. Asked him in my lesson the other day, and we spent the bulk of the lesson simply talking about it, and when we did dance, the movement I worried about turned out to have been internalized in my body to some extent, anyway, no matter how much I thought I was screwing up.

To wrench this back on topic, it was interesting to discover how much additional expression was evoked when that technical issue got cleared up -- and the worry that went along with it. 
Logged

ancora imparo
Dora-Satya Veda
Gold Star
***
Posts: 6871


« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2011, 10:51:37 PM »

In dance I think the whole point is to not see technique at all.  the best dancers seem to require no effort and no technique...

I totally agree. If you dance good technique people wouldn't really notice it as technique. It would just look normal and none offencive.

DSV
Logged

"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
millitiz
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 220


« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2011, 01:40:12 PM »

I would like to share a quote I found somewhere on the net, and I think it truly represent my belief in the relationship between expression and technique

True technique is effortless. It should hide quietly underneath the vibrancy of one's expression.

http://danceforums.com/showpost.php?p=120990&postcount=5

Slighly corollary: IMHO, the relationship is the technique enable (and expand the range of possibility of) the expression/artistry.
Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35037


ee


« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2011, 06:54:27 PM »

I think you put it very well militz... Cool
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
QPO
reg mods
Continental Champion
****
Posts: 20842


Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2011, 09:34:57 PM »

that is a lovely quote also. Grin some good underlying principles are giving here
Logged

Dance is a delicate balance between perfection and beauty.  ~Author Unknown
Dance Forum
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
*
Posts: 1465


« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2011, 11:33:24 AM »

True technique is effortless.  I fully agree.  Good technique - when taught right - is effortless as well as easier to do than bad technique.   
Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35037


ee


« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2011, 02:11:11 PM »

True technique is effortless.  I fully agree.  Good technique - when taught right - is effortless as well as easier to do than bad technique.   

Yes, but with one proviso - only if you have not already learned bad technique... Shocked
[which is, of course, how most people get introduced to dancing by 'teachers']
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
millitiz
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 220


« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2011, 10:30:15 PM »

Although I guess there is the period of getting used to the true technique - that might take some work such as drill and get back to normal physicality. (I think more so in Latin than Standard).

Also, ee, wouldn't good technique makes you feel better/easier even when learning bad technique at the first place (since it is suppose to be more "natural")?
Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35037


ee


« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2011, 01:31:05 AM »

Also, ee, wouldn't good technique makes you feel better/easier even when learning bad technique at the first place (since it is suppose to be more "natural")?
I guess it could but once one is used to something bad its sometimes very hard to change out of it because a number of things must be learned at the same time. 

For example, we've discussed extensively here how bad it is to 'bend to move' vs 'move to bend' but many dancers who learn the former (which can be harmful to your body) simply can not switch to the former.
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
QPO
reg mods
Continental Champion
****
Posts: 20842


Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2011, 06:37:22 AM »

If I can use my leg as an analogy... I still walk with a limp  but my brain now thinks it normal.. so when I attempt a normal gait it feels all wrong and not easy at all.  have to tell myself this is right and keep it up until I make a new habit.

I think that dancing is the same way, you have to make a new habit. before it is effortless. I agree good technique should be effortless.
Logged

Dance is a delicate balance between perfection and beauty.  ~Author Unknown
Dance Forum
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
*
Posts: 1465


« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2011, 02:19:46 PM »

I agree, change is not easy.  After the change 'though, it becomes really easy.  That's what I meant.
Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35037


ee


« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2011, 02:47:15 PM »

After the change 'though, it becomes really easy.  That's what I meant.

I'm surprised that you are so knowledgeable on the subject Roll Eyes
Tongue Tongue
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!