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Author Topic: Methods of Instruction: where is the line?  (Read 1988 times)
GreenEyes26
Mind Workers
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 110



« on: March 28, 2011, 12:03:58 PM »

BoS is making me re-think "How-To" and "Selp-help" books and other methods of instruction. I mean, someone who has had success being extremely efficient, for instance, can tell you exactly how they do what they do. However, they didn't become efficient by following a book or instructions, but by figuring it out themselves. Where do you think the line is in teaching between telling someone what to do and having them figure it out through less instruction?
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"As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.”

 ~Ralph Waldo Emerson
Rugby
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« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2011, 09:10:49 PM »

Perhaps it is good to point the direction, or give them the map but let them discover the best route that works for them.  An instructor friend was trying to get her people to understand a concept.  I was telling her to try and give them some excercises that would lead them to their own "aha" moments as I like to call them.  Sometimes by discovering it yourself you remember it better because now you understand it.  She couldn't believe how it worked.  For weeks she was trying to point out over and over why they could not do a particular move but as soon as they did the excercise they all had an "aha" moment and haven't had trouble with it since.  Not saying this works for everyone.       
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
QPO
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Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2011, 08:54:08 AM »

we all take in information in different ways at different times. we currently have two standard teachers, one who works on our routine and timing etc. he was also guiding us with posture and shaping.  but our new teacher just solely focuses on shaping and the individual figures...and that has complimented our other teachers work.  yet I know our other teacher has told us the same thing. So why do we do it now. I think because it is broken down into pieces and then you put it together and each tells you in a different way. then you have the Ah moment .. so all ways are valid. it is what works for you at a certain time.
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Dance is a delicate balance between perfection and beauty.  ~Author Unknown
Dance Forum
Rugby
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2011, 09:57:18 PM »

We have a male and female for Standard and a male and female for Latin.  You are right in that they are saying the same thing but it is how it is said that makes the difference.  Also, my partner and I learn quite differently so that helps to have a few opinions.  I always tell people that for one person they can be told that 2 + 2 will equal 4 but not understand it fully but if someone else says 3 + 1 equals 4 they say aha, of course.  It is all how you understand.  This is why we like different instructors.  Also, the man can never explain the woman's part as good as a woman or a man the man's because their are so many nuances and tricks learned by the particular sex to achieve the part that they other does not think of or do.  And, no matter how good the man / woman is they still look like a man / woman when trying to demonstate a part.  Often when I do something my female teacher will say "don't tell me, a man told you to do it that way" and the men say the same thing to my DP about it must have been a woman trying to show them a particular part.
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2011, 10:40:48 PM »

Thats true R but on the other hand its one thing to learn how to do something and its quite a different one to learn how it feels.  For that you have to have to opposite sex as an instructor!  Thus, even though a woman may not know how to do the mans part, only a woman can demonstrate to him what its supposed to feel like....

So it gets more complicated!
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
millitiz
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 220


« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2011, 01:39:44 AM »

BoS is making me re-think "How-To" and "Selp-help" books and other methods of instruction. I mean, someone who has had success being extremely efficient, for instance, can tell you exactly how they do what they do. However, they didn't become efficient by following a book or instructions, but by figuring it out themselves. Where do you think the line is in teaching between telling someone what to do and having them figure it out through less instruction?

I think it has something to do with at which stage one is in dancing.

For instance, Marcus (or Karen) said in their interview that s/he would focus more one the exact things to do for the beginners, and for the more advance couples, gave them an idea, and let them figure it out themselves.

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Some guy
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1464


« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2011, 03:00:48 PM »

Where do you think the line is in teaching between telling someone what to do and having them figure it out through less instruction?
In relation to ballroom dancing, I think it's best to provide the instruction in such a way that the person discovers everything themselves.  Sure, the coach can show the student what to do with that knowledge and give ideas about patterns and tricks, but at the end of the day, since this is not rocket science, I think it's best to have the knowledge come from within. 
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elisedance
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« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2011, 03:06:00 PM »

RIght on - which probably is the only way to learn anything.  I mean learn not remember...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Some guy
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« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2011, 03:36:32 PM »

Yup!  We're on the same page! ...unless I miscalculated and PDO puts this post on the next page.   Grin
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QPO
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Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2011, 11:40:18 PM »

Yup!  We're on the same page! ...unless I miscalculated and PDO puts this post on the next page.   Grin

depends on how you have your pages structured.  I have mine set up to show the latest posts first!, so I often have to go backwards Tongue
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Dance is a delicate balance between perfection and beauty.  ~Author Unknown
Dance Forum
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2011, 06:00:50 AM »

Yup!  We're on the same page! ...unless I miscalculated and PDO puts this post on the next page.   Grin

depends on how you have your pages structured.  I have mine set up to show the latest posts first!, so I often have to go backwards Tongue

How very appropriate for a follower... Grin
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
QPO
reg mods
Continental Champion
****
Posts: 20818


Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2011, 08:25:23 AM »

Yup!  We're on the same page! ...unless I miscalculated and PDO puts this post on the next page.   Grin

depends on how you have your pages structured.  I have mine set up to show the latest posts first!, so I often have to go backwards Tongue

How very appropriate for a follower... Grin

I am a natural at it. Tongue
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Dance is a delicate balance between perfection and beauty.  ~Author Unknown
Dance Forum
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2011, 11:26:00 AM »

I believe great teachers give you ideas, principles and facts for you to discover for yourself. I think it is the way we humans really learn. It is easy for a parent to tell the child what to do and what not to do. The child will however not really understand it till they have experienced it for themselves. I have found that many of the things that my teachers told me of what they did and felt was not really understood till I did it for myself. My dance father always taught principles and facts as he said you would have to develop your own feeling about each of the ideas, principles and facts. You will over time find that the feelings you have are very similar to the feelings of the teachers. If I tell you that something “feels good” you don’t really understand what I mean by “feeling good” till you have experienced it for yourself.

DSV
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
elisedance
Administrator
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ee


« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2011, 11:48:47 AM »

Perhaps one should take that advice one step further DSV?  it can be dangerous to think you know something by instruction without having worked through it yourself.  For example, one can learn from a lecture what 'swing' is in waltz but how can one know it without having the experience of integrating it with forward motion and in the arms of a partner?

I think that is the source of much of the bad teaching that I have experienced (thankfully not a lot) where a principle is taught by someone who has never integrated it into dance.
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Dora-Satya Veda
Gold Star
***
Posts: 6871


« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2011, 12:10:50 PM »

One of my teachers always says “If you want to go somewhere or do something then ask somebody that has been where you want to go or done what you want to do”. There are a lot of teachers that teach and don’t really know how to get where the student wants to go. I have also found that some teachers have taken only a few lessons with master teachers and don’t really understand why they were told what they were told. This can cause a great misunderstanding to the point that what they are teaching is not really what the master teacher beliefs in. I have seen this happing sooo many times lately that it is beginning to be a major issue. 

DSV
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
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