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Author Topic: I might want to move to Australia or Canada.  (Read 3066 times)
Dancerette
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« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2010, 09:21:50 AM »

And don't forget we have free health care in Canada once you are a citizen.
you don't have to be a citizen!  You just have to live here legally for a month...

Really?! I didn't know that. That frustrates me.
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elisedance
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« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2010, 03:09:21 PM »

And don't forget we have free health care in Canada once you are a citizen.
you don't have to be a citizen!  You just have to live here legally for a month...

Really?! I didn't know that. That frustrates me.
Why?  You want people to die on the street?  I thought the idea was to get healty immigrants and welcome them...
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Dancerette
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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2010, 06:28:59 PM »

I wouldn't think it an unreasonable, nor punitive, request that individuals new to the country contribute to the tax base for a reasonable amount of time before being able to draw from it.

Why would they be dying on the street? And what does offering carte blanche free health care have to do with "getting" healthy immigrants? Your two statements seem contradictory, but maybe I'm not catching your meaning. Can you clarify?

It's not an unending, never emptied pot of money from which our health care system draws, and as the global (including our fair country) economic picture becomes more stressed, these entitlements will undoubtedly be scaled back.
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elisedance
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« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2010, 06:58:45 PM »

when people immigrate they are usually at their most impoverished.  thus, if they get sick you are saying they should not have any support at all.  On the other hand, Canada prides itself in helping people in third-world countries - people who never 'contribute to the tax base'.  I like the latter canada more than the concept you are putting forward.

The idea of supporting people early is so that they can get a legup and THEN contribute to the country and if you like tax base.  Logical as you might think your approach is (pay in first, then benefit) I don't think it works work.
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Dancerette
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« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2010, 08:10:00 PM »

I admire your selflessness, and your altruism, but the reality is the county cannot continue at this pace. While not (or, at least not admittedly; who knows the actual financial picture since we're only privy to what the media shares) bankrupt, I wouldn't be gobsmacked to learn Canada is on the way to joining Argentina, Grenada, Ireland, Greece, several of the U.S. states, Iceland, etc. in this dismal state of affairs.

Canada is already showing signs of stress; let's talk about what inspired this discussion, our health care. We have a somewhat poorly kept secret, the two tiered system. It's not advertised, but it exists. Those who can afford to pay for better service find it, and get it. Why? Because our basic health care package is falling more and more behind every day. Have you tried finding a new family doctor in any province? Thousands of Canadians in my city of residence are without a primary care physician and have been for several years; the wait for some surgeries is measured in years, the wait for an MRI can be a year, or longer. FAmily MDs are overworked, and while not quite as underpaid as they used to be, the shortage exists because quite frankly, being a doctor of primary care medicine in Ontario (I'll speak for my province) sucks sometimes.

Surgeons are offered limited OR time, not because THEY aren't available and willing to work, but because hospital budgets cannot pay the necessary numbers of supporting staff (nurses, respiratory therapists, etc). Specialists are granted administrative assistance time of 3-4 hours per day in some cases, which clearly limits the number of patients that can be seen, the number of clinic hours that can run.

While free health care for all who choose to live within our borders (no matter the circumstance of how they landed in this country) is a beautiful concept, and something that has been supported for many years, this stance, given the overall economic state of the world, is now taking a toll. The notion that it is free is wrong; it is preferentially free, i.e., free only to those who do not pay taxes. The middle class, the biggest source of tax dollars, is shrinking while the burden of supporting tax fed programs is growing. Our children represent the first generation slated to have a lower standard of living as compared to the parent generation.

I wish I had an answer that could keep everybody bathed in free health care, housing, clothing and food, but I don't. It's a potentially hugely contentious discussion, and I'm not invested enough in debating the issue on a dance forum. But, advertising Canada as a great place to live because we have free health care is naive, and does us a huge disservice.
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elisedance
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« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2010, 08:35:17 PM »

Thank you for the insight - there is a lot there that I can learn from.  And you are right: comprehensive health care in canada requires not only the provincial medical services but also an insurance program from employment.  It is not economically possible to provide such care for all - but should we not remain committed to provide basic health services for eveyone?  At the extreme: could you accept seeing someone dying in the street because they could pay?  If not then how much medical service would you give to those that are without means...

Besides, recent immigrants needs are hardly a large chunk of medical costs - the system ensures that its the youngest, ablest and fittest that come to the head of the queue.  Thus, the savings are not there.  One way to save a lot of money is to quit the idea that people have to stay alive when they want to die.  Currently we are spending a fortune paying for geriatric care for people who not only don't want it but would pay to be able to die.  I think this should be a personal choice.   

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Rugby
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« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2010, 03:13:32 AM »

I have heard that Canadians and Australians are very much alike so you can't go wrong with either country.
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elisedance
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« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2010, 03:47:15 AM »

I heard (and saw) that Canadians are like New Zealanders and Australians are more like USians....  Similar dynamic between the two countries (except, perhaps, in physical size Wink )
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QPO
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« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2010, 06:00:38 AM »

I have heard that Canadians and Australians are very much alike so you can't go wrong with either country.

yes we have the same sense of humor I believe, nothing like americans at all.
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elisedance
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« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2010, 10:06:56 AM »

..but less socialism and perhaps more materialism?  [Just a question - wish the NZ set would pipe in here...]
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

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QPO
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« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2010, 06:02:23 PM »

..but less socialism and perhaps more materialism?  [Just a question - wish the NZ set would pipe in here...]

No we do have socialism here we offer free universial health care even if you are unemployed here, you have unlimited benefits it is not restricted to a time line.

parts of the population may at times have materialistics ideals but that again is not far from the western world ideology. However nationaly our views are that no one should be left behind and we take care of others.

Our views are not that much different from the rest of the western world and we have a political system based on the Westminster system, the same as Canada. We are part of the Commonwealth again same ais Canada. I don't think there are many differences but to put us on the same level as the US is just as silly as when we would say that Canadians are the same as their southern counterparts
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 06:49:12 PM by QPO » Logged

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elisedance
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« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2010, 07:00:11 PM »

..but less socialism and perhaps more materialism?  [Just a question - wish the NZ set would pipe in here...]

No we do have socialism here we offer free universial health care even if you are unemployed here, you have unlimited benefits it is not restricted to a time line.

parts of the population may at times have materialistics ideals but that again is not far from the western world ideology. However nationaly our views are that no one should be left behind and we take care of others.

Our views are not that much different from the rest of the western world and we have a political system based on the Westminster system, the same as Canada. We are part of the Commonwealth again same ais Canada. I don't think there are many differences but to put us on the same level as the US is just as silly as when we would say that Canadians are the same as their southern counterparts
Thanks - I needed to hear that.  I suppose my perspective is too much influenced by what I heard in NZ.  I need to visit Australia to see it for myself - and it is, of corse (like us) huge with no doubt a diversity of cultures and cultural bases.  If you visited ALberta you might think that Canada was more Statsian than the most conservative state.  Its good to hear that Australia has critical socialism (health, education, human rights), much as we and most of Europe has. 
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
dlgodud
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« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2010, 05:42:50 PM »

What else you suggest besides health care? I guess I will be taken care of if I move to Australia or Canada.

Tell me more. I want to know.  Cheesy
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QPO
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Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2010, 06:42:55 PM »

What else you suggest besides health care? I guess I will be taken care of if I move to Australia or Canada.

Tell me more. I want to know.  Cheesy

eleborate and I will see what other information i can gather for you.
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emeralddancer
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« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2010, 01:01:56 AM »

umhey .... American here reading this.  Roll Eyes

sheesh you guys.

are we really so bad?

I kinda like my country. A LOT. oh I like my health care to. I pay out the butt for it. But I choose to whom I want to go to and when. Thankyouverymuch!

Did I mention I am unemployed too? oh yeah I am, and I STILL pay for my health care.


I think any country, we kinda all face the same sort of issues, kind circle like. gotta love the world.

I really wish I could get all of us together. and give each of ya a hug.

I love these topics. so nice!
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It is more important who they are as people and only then is it important who they are as dancers.~Marcia Haydee
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