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Author Topic: Is Dancesport in decline?  (Read 8755 times)
Rugby
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« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2010, 08:34:38 PM »

Seems like we lack a nucleating personality or organization here.  someone to publicise and recruit more dancers...

For sure and the effects are being felt.
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
dlgodud
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« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2010, 10:27:41 PM »

I think we are going 'back to normal' - the 'Dancing with the Stars' era is ending...

Still very popular here, but I think people may be realisng it does not come without effort but if we can attract a few more via it that would be great.

Agree! Some people who started to dance after watching 'Dancing with the Stars' think that ballroom dancing is quite easy compare to other dance forms such as modern or ballet.
But, later they realize that it is actually quite of work. So they got discouraged and dropped it. Also, the cost are very high.
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dlgodud
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« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2010, 10:33:12 PM »

Recruit more guys, and that could be one solution.
You see there are always surplus of ladies, but shortage of gentlemen.  Roll Eyes
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ttd
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« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2010, 11:26:24 PM »

Seems like we lack a nucleating personality or organization here.  someone to publicise and recruit more dancers...

For sure and the effects are being felt.
Don't you have Canadian equivalent of USA Dance? If you do, what does it do? USA Dance supposedly promotes competitive dancing and youth programs, but in practice it's only happening in large communities, mainly on the coasts.
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ttd
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« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2010, 11:42:32 PM »

Isn't that kinda what I was talking about? You need to start recruiting beginners on local level and maybe some of them will advance to fill out competitive fields on the open level. But it has to look doable for them in the beginning <until they're hooked Smiley > - i.e. affordable local events where they don't have to travel far to compete, access to OK instruction (not pricey top-notch, but at least someone who knows what they're doing and who has worked or is working with top coaches and judges) access to practice space, etc. IMO, US doesn't have that sort of thing going outside of the large metro areas on the coasts.

Here we don't have that going on either.  Unless you are in Toronto or Montreal you are basically out of luck and overlooked.  It is only a few of us that have made the trek but it comes at a cost.  As you say, until we can get local instruction to get people hooked then chances are nothing will happen.  The problem is if everything is based around one area once that area is tapped out things decline.  New blood is needed but not encouraged so doesn't happen , especailly here where paranoid older Pros rather have the system crash then take the chance on anything new.
Don't you have any local studios at all? Even though our community is relatively small (~100K population), and isolated (nearest big cities are 2 hours away), we have one studio and a couple of independent teachers in town. They may not be the most experienced (the more experienced ones are based in aforementioned big cities), but the locals who would like to try dancing at least have the opportunity. But there is lack of local competitive events aimed at amateur couples within easy driving distance (before they added ballroom dance event to state olympics, there was absolutely nothing, and I don't know if it will stay, they just did it once so far), so most people interested in competing go for pro-am events at the two comps we have, and just do those twice a year.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 11:45:17 PM by ttd » Logged
QPO
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« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2010, 06:01:12 AM »

Recruit more guys, and that could be one solution.
You see there are always surplus of ladies, but shortage of gentlemen.  Roll Eyes


This is the external problem. how to get guys involved.....if you have ideas let me know Shocked
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ttd
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« Reply #51 on: December 15, 2010, 09:44:55 AM »

I wonder if the approach of studios could be changed and may be the Russian/European club system adopted?  From the one club that I was at, this seemed to ensure that lessons were cheaper over all, both group & private, and of a high quality as all in the groups had similar aims, & financial reasons became less of a limiting factor.  Clubs also provide practice time & space.  I also think that dancing is just more popular in some countries, and has a different position in society. eg in some countries, dancing is compulsory in school
I always wondered how that type of club system would work in adults (past college, that is) dance community. Especially considering the surplus of ladies wanting to dance.

All competitors were adult (beyond university) amateur & with a partner, but if partnerless & interested in competing, teachers were helpful in looking out for a suitable partner.  The system seemed to work really well with quality training.  There were separate social classes, where as you mentioned there was a surplus of ladies.  Interestingly, chatting with others, some studios seem to have a surplus of men which hasn't been my experience so far & totally different topic :-).  We don't have the option of pro-am, which by the sounds of it is prohibitively expensive.
Interesting, so the teachers would help unpartnered students find partners. My feeling is that in US in this situation a teacher would steer students towards pro-am competition.
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elisedance
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« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2010, 11:34:18 AM »

I wonder if the approach of studios could be changed and may be the Russian/European club system adopted?  From the one club that I was at, this seemed to ensure that lessons were cheaper over all, both group & private, and of a high quality as all in the groups had similar aims, & financial reasons became less of a limiting factor.  Clubs also provide practice time & space.  I also think that dancing is just more popular in some countries, and has a different position in society. eg in some countries, dancing is compulsory in school
I always wondered how that type of club system would work in adults (past college, that is) dance community. Especially considering the surplus of ladies wanting to dance.

All competitors were adult (beyond university) amateur & with a partner, but if partnerless & interested in competing, teachers were helpful in looking out for a suitable partner.  The system seemed to work really well with quality training.  There were separate social classes, where as you mentioned there was a surplus of ladies.  Interestingly, chatting with others, some studios seem to have a surplus of men which hasn't been my experience so far & totally different topic :-).  We don't have the option of pro-am, which by the sounds of it is prohibitively expensive.
Interesting, so the teachers would help unpartnered students find partners. My feeling is that in US in this situation a teacher would steer students towards pro-am competition.
Most would I'm sure - its a meal ticket and its hard to make a buck out of am partners since after a short while they start taking lessons all over the place.  Least the serious ones do.
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dlgodud
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« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2010, 02:24:51 PM »

Recruit more guys, and that could be one solution.
You see there are always surplus of ladies, but shortage of gentlemen.  Roll Eyes


This is the external problem. how to get guys involved.....if you have ideas let me know Shocked

Why do you think it is an external problem??? Maybe not in Australia, but here in America that could solve the problem of ladies' dropouts from dancing, especially competitive side, IMO. There are so many ladies who want to find partners, but it is extremely difficult. So that's why we do pro-am, and it costs a lot of money. So some point we have to decide whether if we want to drop it or not.
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dlgodud
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« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2010, 02:28:23 PM »

I wonder if the approach of studios could be changed and may be the Russian/European club system adopted?  From the one club that I was at, this seemed to ensure that lessons were cheaper over all, both group & private, and of a high quality as all in the groups had similar aims, & financial reasons became less of a limiting factor.  Clubs also provide practice time & space.  I also think that dancing is just more popular in some countries, and has a different position in society. eg in some countries, dancing is compulsory in school
I always wondered how that type of club system would work in adults (past college, that is) dance community. Especially considering the surplus of ladies wanting to dance.

All competitors were adult (beyond university) amateur & with a partner, but if partnerless & interested in competing, teachers were helpful in looking out for a suitable partner.  The system seemed to work really well with quality training.  There were separate social classes, where as you mentioned there was a surplus of ladies.  Interestingly, chatting with others, some studios seem to have a surplus of men which hasn't been my experience so far & totally different topic :-).  We don't have the option of pro-am, which by the sounds of it is prohibitively expensive.
Interesting, so the teachers would help unpartnered students find partners. My feeling is that in US in this situation a teacher would steer students towards pro-am competition.

They are not that proactive for it. Once one teacher wanted to introduce me a potential partner, but I doubt he initiated it.
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elisedance
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« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2010, 03:19:27 PM »

Recruit more guys, and that could be one solution.
You see there are always surplus of ladies, but shortage of gentlemen.  Roll Eyes


This is the external problem. how to get guys involved.....if you have ideas let me know Shocked

Why do you think it is an external problem??? Maybe not in Australia, but here in America that could solve the problem of ladies' dropouts from dancing, especially competitive side, IMO. There are so many ladies who want to find partners, but it is extremely difficult. So that's why we do pro-am, and it costs a lot of money. So some point we have to decide whether if we want to drop it or not.

As the couples get more advanced the, difference largely disappears - after all you need to dance with someone to get to the advanced level.  What was a shortage of men at mid-syllabus (medal) competition level became a shortage of women at championship, to the point that at least three men I know dropped out from a lack of a partner.  The pro-am scene is not very vibrant here - perhaps elsewhere schollarship women could have supplied the needed partners.

One AM I know decided to go pro and dance with pro-ams!
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ttd
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« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2010, 04:09:09 PM »

Recruit more guys, and that could be one solution.
You see there are always surplus of ladies, but shortage of gentlemen.  Roll Eyes


This is the external problem. how to get guys involved.....if you have ideas let me know Shocked

Why do you think it is an external problem??? Maybe not in Australia, but here in America that could solve the problem of ladies' dropouts from dancing, especially competitive side, IMO. There are so many ladies who want to find partners, but it is extremely difficult. So that's why we do pro-am, and it costs a lot of money. So some point we have to decide whether if we want to drop it or not.

As the couples get more advanced the, difference largely disappears - after all you need to dance with someone to get to the advanced level.  What was a shortage of men at mid-syllabus (medal) competition level became a shortage of women at championship, to the point that at least three men I know dropped out from a lack of a partner.  The pro-am scene is not very vibrant here - perhaps elsewhere schollarship women could have supplied the needed partners.

One AM I know decided to go pro and dance with pro-ams!
You mean difference in number of men vs. women? Around here it doesn't even out, because the gender disbalance in the beginning is so huge. It just decreases somewhat, but even that is questionable. You do need to dance with someone to advance, so unpartnered individuals do it with their teachers. In a way that is a problem, because only one person advances at a time vs. a couple advancing together - even if they split down the road, that is still better for the pool of potential partners. But IMO that's still better than nobody advancing at all because they can't find a partner.
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dlgodud
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« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2010, 04:50:17 PM »

Recruit more guys, and that could be one solution.
You see there are always surplus of ladies, but shortage of gentlemen.  Roll Eyes


This is the external problem. how to get guys involved.....if you have ideas let me know Shocked

Why do you think it is an external problem??? Maybe not in Australia, but here in America that could solve the problem of ladies' dropouts from dancing, especially competitive side, IMO. There are so many ladies who want to find partners, but it is extremely difficult. So that's why we do pro-am, and it costs a lot of money. So some point we have to decide whether if we want to drop it or not.

As the couples get more advanced the, difference largely disappears - after all you need to dance with someone to get to the advanced level.  What was a shortage of men at mid-syllabus (medal) competition level became a shortage of women at championship, to the point that at least three men I know dropped out from a lack of a partner.  The pro-am scene is not very vibrant here - perhaps elsewhere schollarship women could have supplied the needed partners.

One AM I know decided to go pro and dance with pro-ams!

Well, maybe it is true somehow, however most of competitors are somewhere between mid-syllabus and pre-champ level. These are people who start to dance when they become an adult. Those people are who have some problems with finding partners. Well, if you think about pyramid, and these are people who are in mid-level. If dancesport goes the way you describe, that is a really issue why it is decline because it seems that it goes to the way of elite sport. I am not sure the real question here, because are you asking the decline of popularity of dancesport or the decline of participation? IMO, that makes a huge difference.
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dlgodud
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« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2010, 04:58:52 PM »

Recruit more guys, and that could be one solution.
You see there are always surplus of ladies, but shortage of gentlemen.  Roll Eyes


This is the external problem. how to get guys involved.....if you have ideas let me know Shocked

Why do you think it is an external problem??? Maybe not in Australia, but here in America that could solve the problem of ladies' dropouts from dancing, especially competitive side, IMO. There are so many ladies who want to find partners, but it is extremely difficult. So that's why we do pro-am, and it costs a lot of money. So some point we have to decide whether if we want to drop it or not.

As the couples get more advanced the, difference largely disappears - after all you need to dance with someone to get to the advanced level.  What was a shortage of men at mid-syllabus (medal) competition level became a shortage of women at championship, to the point that at least three men I know dropped out from a lack of a partner.  The pro-am scene is not very vibrant here - perhaps elsewhere schollarship women could have supplied the needed partners.

One AM I know decided to go pro and dance with pro-ams!

Well, maybe it is true somehow, however most of competitors are somewhere between mid-syllabus and pre-champ level. The number of people who compete in champ level cannot even be compared with the number of people from mid-syllabus to pre-champ level. It is not just applied to Pro-Am, and it also applies to AM. Well, why there are non AM couple from mid-syllabus to pre-champ level in competitions? That is because a lot of them do pro-am I think. So what is the percentage of women vs. men in proam category. We don't need to even see it. These are people who start to dance when they become an adult. Those people are who have some problems with finding partners. Well, if you think about pyramid, and these are people who are in mid-level. If dancesport goes the way you describe, that is a really issue why it is decline because it seems that it goes to the way of elite sport. I am not sure the real question here, because are you asking the decline of popularity of dancesport or the decline of participation? IMO, that makes a huge difference. Also, what you say is right, as a female dancer and if you don't reach to a certain level, it seems that you don't have a choice except doing pro-am.
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Rugby
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« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2010, 08:50:04 PM »

Don't you have any local studios at all? Even though our community is relatively small (~100K population), and isolated (nearest big cities are 2 hours away), we have one studio and a couple of independent teachers in town. They may not be the most experienced (the more experienced ones are based in aforementioned big cities), but the locals who would like to try dancing at least have the opportunity. But there is lack of local competitive events aimed at amateur couples within easy driving distance (before they added ballroom dance event to state olympics, there was absolutely nothing, and I don't know if it will stay, they just did it once so far), so most people interested in competing go for pro-am events at the two comps we have, and just do those twice a year.
We are in the same boat as yourself as in a few local studios with the good ones 2 1/2 to 3 hours away.  That's the sad thing and the reason in Ontario we are having problems.  Basically everyone in the province outside of Toronto are also in this boat.  I would say the instructors would be about Pre-Bronze level with little or no technique.  The best one teaching around here is about bronze but would lose in a competition.  It doesn't take long for any of these instructors to finally run out of tricks and the people just learn nothing.  Some have even lied to their students saying they competed so of course the students think the person must be really good and their word becomes gospel.  I have taken two instructors to task on this.  Many shelter their students from trying to do more since they don't want to be exposed for the charlatans that they are.  All in all the students, if they wanted to, have little chance of getting better since they are never exposed to good teaching and don't realize what they are getting is sub, sub-standard at best.  This of course means there is also little chance that there will be any up and coming competitors.     
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
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