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Author Topic: Is this being honest or being a liar? Or between?  (Read 2446 times)
dlgodud
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« on: November 21, 2010, 08:30:18 PM »

The question I want to ask your opinion is what some pros state their placements.

Here is the scenario. Let's assume that there is a pro who places 40th at a competition. The competition that the pro competed is held for representatives of countries. So, even though you are a semi-finalist in a competition such as Blackpool, but if you are not 1st or 2nd in your country, you cannot participate in this event. Because you are not qualify for the event due to the quota given to each participating county. But, let's assume that the pro competed in Blackpool, but the pro placed 120th. Of course, numbers of couples who enter to events are hugely different. The number of couples who entered to the event(pro placed 40th) is 60, but the number of couples for Blackpool is over 200.

But, the pro decided to introduce himself or tell his/her student that he/she is the 40th in the world.

Is this a honest introduction or dishonest one?

For me, this sounds very dishonest.

What do you think?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 01:02:21 PM by dlgodud » Logged
skipper
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« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2010, 09:39:54 PM »

Dishonest - Blackpool is NOT a world championship.

Better ro say, "in the 48 @ Blackpool".
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QPO
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« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2010, 03:16:18 AM »

sounds dodgy....he is obviously feeling that he needs to inflate his profile.... Roll Eyes
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elisedance
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« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2010, 05:52:35 AM »

sounds dodgy....he is obviously feeling that he needs to inflate his profile.... Roll Eyes
...which is often a sign of an inferiority complex....
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QPO
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« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2010, 05:57:32 AM »

sounds dodgy....he is obviously feeling that he needs to inflate his profile.... Roll Eyes
...which is often a sign of an inferiority complex....

so true Cool
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standarddancer
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« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2010, 03:42:46 PM »

Not complete honest but this is not the worst, I would say it is between, I’ve seen much worse misrepresentation of results, one of my ex had told studio owners that he had been both standard & latin champion of his own country while in fact he had been neither, only winning some small regional comps in std but since the award certificate is in foreign language, he had presented such to US Immigration, studio owners, and his students to brag about his “achievements”, so studio owners could market him as “Champion” and he could got paid better than other USA dance teachers

He also manually altered his entire dance book to show US Immigration for his O1 visa (ballroom dancers with extraordinary ability working visa) which requires substantial results and achievements. He had made a copy of his dance book, white out as many as bad results as he can, fill out great top results by pen and make another copy so the white out does not show up on the copies, he had presented this kind of copies to studio owners, students, and US immigration!!! He actually got his working visa by committing fraud! Students have no idea since lots of comps in East Europe are not posted on sites like DSI, so happily paying him a higher rate than other teachers. However one day, a relatively computer savvy student printed out a DSI latin result which shows him and ex-partner were LAST PLACE in a large international comp and asked me, ”are you sure he had been a latin Champion? ” LOL…she also said studio owner had pushing her take lessons from him while she liked another dance teacher who did not inflate his results, studio owner keep pushing her, “take this guy, he’s a champion of his own country, and worth more money, the other teacher (who is completely honest) has no title..”…I told her “you’d better show this page to him and ask him yourself…” LOL…

This student had stopped lesson from my ex, she felt being ripped off for the overpriced “champion”; but those students who are not computer savvy were still happily paying a very much inflated pro-am price for this “champion”…he had been marked up his pro-am pricing 3 or 4 times more than other dance teachers in studio since this “champion” misrepresentation!!! Some students figured out this lie and stopped lessons, but he could always get some new students who are completely not familiar with dancesport info site, etc. Sometimes unethical behavior brings extra income:( sigh:(
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dlgodud
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« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2010, 12:32:00 AM »

I know SD. That is my concern too. Well, I don't think my example given here is the worst case indeed, but still I've seen a few similar examples. I myself will not get fooled, but it seems one that I know recently inflated his competition result. I don't know what his intention is.
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standarddancer
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« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2010, 12:47:02 AM »

Intention could be make himself looking good so he can get more students or get paid better? or just simply make students admire him more by thinking he's a highly ranked world class dancer?
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phoenix13
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« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2013, 02:50:02 PM »

Does ranking in competitions really make that much difference in how teachers are perceived?  Teaching and competing are two completely different skills,right?
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elisedance
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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2013, 03:53:53 PM »

Does ranking in competitions really make that much difference in how teachers are perceived?  Teaching and competing are two completely different skills,right?
NO!
Not in the ballroom world.  Its ALL about ranking - and I disagree with the above that Blackpool is not a world championship. It its not its something higher!  The point is that at least as I see it, if you came first at Blackpool and second at the worlds you would command more respect and probably higher teaching/showcase rates than the other way round. 

Your future is set if you can say you were a finalist at Blackpool and is golden if you can say you placed (this means coming in the top three in any of the 5 dances not necessarily the overall ranking). 

This really does make sense since you've proved yourself in the market place.  Of course, it should not only be so - some of the best teachers in ballroom (or other pursuits) never made it very high in their profession but still trained the best.
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phoenix13
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2013, 04:37:03 PM »

Wow.  Looks like I touched a hot button issue, here.

I agree that Blackpool is bigger than a world championship.  That's like saying that Shakespeare was a playwright -- true and REALLY false. lol.

I don't think that having great competitive results is the measure of a great ballroom teacher,though.  I suspected that you would feel that way, ee.  I wonder what others think.  Not trying to stir things up.  i just wonder if I'm crazy, which is entirely possible.
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elisedance
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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2013, 09:15:02 PM »

I don't think that having great competitive results is the measure of a great ballroom teacher,though.  I suspected that you would feel that way, ee.  I wonder what others think.  Not trying to stir things up.  i just wonder if I'm crazy, which is entirely possible.
whoa!  I think you misread the above.  The question you posed was "Does ranking in competitions really make that much difference in how teachers are perceived?  Teaching and competing are two completely different skills,right?"
I took 'percieved' to mean exactly that - what the are seen as not what they necessarily are.  

Definitely; excellence at anything does not mean you are also excellent at teaching it, sometimes its the opposite.  Take for example (maybe I mentioned this before) someone who's been riding a horse since they were 3 yrs old and becomes a show horse champion.  The odds are that they can not teach it to beginners because they learned how to do the beginning stuff so early its just automatic to them.  

However, someone that has won blackpool has the odds obviously has proved they have the goods - and others want to learn from the best  and hence, they are percieved as the top..  

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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

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QPO
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« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2013, 12:09:58 AM »

Being a good dancer does not equate to being a good teacher. I have seen that in lots of other disciplines. Cycling, photgraphy, people who were great were not good coaches and visa versa.

It is about having the ability to deliver a message in more than one way to suit a vareity of students, who have different learning styles. Being Blackpool or world champion does not mean you will pocess those skills.
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SwingWaltz
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« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2013, 01:07:14 AM »

I've seen/heard/experienced worse!

Proprietor of a local studio (one I used to attend before they took over), publicly advertises themselves online/newspapers/magazines as the TOP Standard AND Latin Professional in Australia and is Australia's World and International Professional 10 dance representative.

In reality, they are the ONLY competing 10 dance professional in Australia. In any single style, standard or latin, they do not make it out of the first round at any Nationals and certainly did NOT make it out of the first round in Blackpool this year.

 Roll Eyes
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phoenix13
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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2013, 06:58:21 AM »

I don't understand what they gain by that kind of misrepresentation.
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