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Author Topic: Want to change teachers and partners too often. How come?  (Read 3098 times)
dlgodud
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« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2010, 12:30:32 PM »

I believe that everyone should change teachers from time to time, otherwise I dont believe you grow. As your dancing improves so should your understanding. I dont believe you should change for change sake. but I am sure you know when it is time.

I agree, but I am afraid if I make a wrong choice.
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elisedance
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« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2010, 02:48:13 PM »

I was not critisizing you at all for being ambitious.  As long as that is for our own betterment (and not putting down others) its a very positive thing, indeed one that most people are envious of. 

I was wondering if you have had the same experience as I did with violin teachers where the first thing they did was to try to dampen my expectations.  'You have to moderate your goals';  'You have to realize that there are limited possibilities at your age' etc etc.  Sorry, I don't want that I want to shoot for playing a concerto in Carnegie hall and I don't want a teacher that is making excuses before I even have a go at it.

Does that resonate at all?  if not its at least a nice story Cheesy
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
dlgodud
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« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2010, 04:43:40 PM »

No. I don't think you wanted to criticize me.  Shocked Not at all.

Yes, I know what you mean. I had this teacher whom I tried once, and he asked me if I could start from Silver level while I was dancing at open level. I simply don't like dancing at syllabus level especially latin. (I apologize if I make anyone feel bad, but I just don't like dancing syllabus.) He mentioned it even before starting the first lesson. It sounded quite unreasonable to me that someone decided to place a person into a level even before testing a person's ability. So after the lesson, I never went back to him. The reason was quite funny because he said that I should dance silver because if I start dancing from open level, there is much thing to improve. Also, he mentioned that some people at silver level have been competing at the level for years.  Huh I thought what other people decided to do was nothing to do with me. Maybe simply they wanted to dance at syllabus level even though they had an ability to dance at open level.

My current teacher once mentioned that I am quite doing impressive as a someone who dances as a hobby. Ok! What does it mean? I guess more than 90% of pro-am students are doing this as a hobby. I see plenty of people who dance at open level dance much better than I do. The point is I will be glad for taking the impressive part, but I was not happy for the latter part of his word. Well, I am not going to twist his word, but it sounded that pro-am students don't possess the ability of dancing like professionals? Maybe I go too far with his word???  Huh


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samina
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« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2010, 05:59:41 PM »

Sounds like you have PDIADD --Professional Dance Instructor Attention Deficit Disorder. Wink  Tongue

Dudley dear, if you do stick with one excellent instructor long enough to really build a good relationship, you can discuss all of these things with him... your instructor can help you develop goals that inspire & excite you, and you can ask *him* for clarification on the things he says which puzzle you. There's really no reason to remain confused and ask others... just go to him and get to know him better and allow him to get to know you better as a student. As time goes on, he'll become even better (ideally) at knowing how to help you progress toward your goals.

As for getting new information... my very first semi-private with my primary instructor was an international Rumba lesson, during which he downloaded a tremendous amount of valuable information. At the end of the lesson he said to the two of us ladies: "Okay, there now you have a year's worth of teaching... and you can spend the rest of your life practicing it. Cheesy" I *still* work with information I received from him on that first day, and I still keep experiencing new "ah-ha's" as my understanding of what he was saying goes deeper and deeper.

It sounds perhaps like you are wanting to stay on the surface and thinking that "more information" to keep your mind busy will give you the improvements you seek. But IME it's more about simplifying and embodying the fundamentals that makes the difference. So instructors need to keep saying many things again & again & again, until we demonstrate that we really *know* them because we *embody* them.
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dlgodud
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« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2010, 06:49:25 PM »

Hehe..... I might have that disorder.  Tongue

I try to build my relationship with my instructor. Wink I am very straight forward and have no problem with talking my thoughts to my instructor. But, there is a stage you can be bloody honest about certain things, IMO. I simply present my experience and ask you guys what your opinion might be. And, you might be right once I get to know him better, but it takes a time to know about a person.

For me, your experience with your primary instructor sounds that the person is averaging everyone's ability like E mentioned in the earlier post. (I don't know your instructor and I have nothing against your instructor.  :DI just state my opinion based on your story.) I don't disagree that we can spend the rest of our life practicing the materials that we got in our first lessons. But, how we know that the materials that your instructor provided to you are a year's worth of learning instead of teaching.

Also, I disagree that we know things because we embody them. Because I think you can do certain things without even having the least knowledge of things. For example, if you look at kids, they just do things without even knowing them. I do sometimes the same, and if someone ask me to explain to them, I will not be able to explain. In this case, shall I practice to embody it or do I need to have a correct knowledge? So IMO, teachers are also require to modify their teaching methods depending on a student ability as explaining things that a student already do with her/his body, but not have proper information in her/his head.  Roll Eyes
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elisedance
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« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2010, 08:46:55 PM »

[Great post Sam Wink ]
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
dancingirldancing
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 102


« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2010, 09:43:07 PM »

I changed teachers every couple of months too ... until I found this one studio where I have stayed for years !

Sometimes it is not you it is just that the teacher student relationship is not compatible.

But then again ... I am not sure what your circumstances are !
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elisedance
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« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2010, 11:04:34 PM »

Perhaps the real reason is that you are looking not for a teacher but a dance partner - and none of htem have fit yet.

[least I hope its a dance partner.... Shocked ]
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
dlgodud
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Posts: 773



« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2010, 11:29:44 AM »

Not sure that if I look for a dance partner at this moment.

I will let you know if it happens.  Wink

Thank you for everybody for your input. Some parts are much clearer than before, but still some parts are not. I guess I just have to accept the fact there are always gray areas in your life and learn how I can enjoy with them. Roll Eyes

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samina
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« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2010, 12:02:46 PM »


For me, your experience with your primary instructor sounds that the person is averaging everyone's ability like E mentioned in the earlier post. (I don't know your instructor and I have nothing against your instructor.  

I don't think that's what was the case -- he was teaching the building blocks of how the movement is achieved... the fundamentals. These are the same fundamentals even long-dancing pros work with. Having studied with that instructor for some time, I know that he is very generous with his information, he doesn't necessarily meter it out as many other instructors do, feeling that they are giving away all their knowledge for cheap. Instead, he understands that just because he's passing information on doesn't mean a student is going to be able to use it, to implement it. It's just words until it's embodied.

Quote
Also, I disagree that we know things because we embody them.
Well... that's not exactly what my point was. There are many dancers who embody things and cannot intellectualize an understanding of what they are embodying. I was simply stressing that just because you "know" something doesn't mean you *know* it. Smiley

"Right, I know that", says the student.
"Well, if you know it, then do it..." says the instructor. Smiley
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dlgodud
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« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2010, 05:35:54 PM »

Quote
Well... that's not exactly what my point was. There are many dancers who embody things and cannot intellectualize an understanding of what they are embodying. I was simply stressing that just because you "know" something doesn't mean you *know* it. Smiley

"Right, I know that", says the student.
"Well, if you know it, then do it..." says the instructor. Smiley


I understood your point. Many times I saw the instructors do the same, but knowing and doing are two different things IMO. (It sounds like a commercial.  Smiley) Isn't it? Especially, when it involves two different kinds of functions that our body do. One is a brain work and the other is physical. So my question is why so many instructors think that if a student says "I know it", then he/she should be able to "execute it"? I am just curious.  Roll Eyes

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ttd
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Posts: 642


« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2010, 11:26:58 AM »

Quote
Well... that's not exactly what my point was. There are many dancers who embody things and cannot intellectualize an understanding of what they are embodying. I was simply stressing that just because you "know" something doesn't mean you *know* it. Smiley

"Right, I know that", says the student.
"Well, if you know it, then do it..." says the instructor. Smiley


I understood your point. Many times I saw the instructors do the same, but knowing and doing are two different things IMO. (It sounds like a commercial.  Smiley) Isn't it? Especially, when it involves two different kinds of functions that our body do. One is a brain work and the other is physical. So my question is why so many instructors think that if a student says "I know it", then he/she should be able to "execute it"? I am just curious.  Roll Eyes

The way I see it, in dancing or any other skill involving actually doing something, knowing something should mean that not only you have heard it before, you should also be able to execute/apply it. "I know it" in this context should not mean "I heard this already", it should mean "I am applying it". It's a bit like learning/teaching someone how to drive. The permit holder in my family seems to hold the view that "I know it" means "I heard this already and you don't need to tell me again even if I am doing it wrong". My view is "If you heard it before, but are not doing it, then you don't know it".
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elisedance
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« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2010, 11:42:05 AM »

True enough TTD but who amongst us does not enjoy the input of more info?

I've been going through the same thing with the violin.  When I returned to playing all I wanted to do was play more music - I think I have hundreds of pieces now - and this was self-supporting because the more pieces I tried the better I got.  However, I found also that this was a case of deminishing returns.  What was happening was that I was improving some aspects of my playing - sight reading, finger speed, bow-finger coordination etc but I was not changing much on others - playing in tune, doing the correct up and down bows, precise timing etc.  Only when I went to a new teacher who was tolerant of my ways but also pointed out some of the limitiations did I discover how important it was to not only skim pieces but to take short segements - and I mean very short ones like a single bar (say 4 notes) and perfect them.

The same is true of ballroom.  You can learn a lot of steps and some high-level skills by skimming lots of information and variations.  However, even a genius will never be outstanding unless you also focus in on the details of your dancing (by whatever teaching method), only that way do you really attain the fundamental motor skills to make precise movements - if you like the single bars of ballroom.  At its extreme we are talking about the differences between a champion dancesport dancer and an ace (I can't say champion because thats the whole point) social dancer.

So there is a lot in what you said TTD and maybe the answer to DGD's original question: it all depends on what you are trying to achieve.  If you want to be able to dance with anyone and follow just about any step - to the amazement of your friends etc, then the 'more is better' principle is fine.  However, if you want to win at dancesport and be admired technically then you have to somehow get interested in the 'nitty-gritty' of ballroom dancing.

[sorry for the long post]
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
ttd
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« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2010, 11:59:54 AM »

As far as dancing goes, I was thinking more about technique, not patterns, when I wrote my post. If we take something really basic, like doing correct footwork (all the heels and toes, and rise and fall and all that good stuff), it should apply to everything you do, no matter what level it is. If you don't have that down, it maybe less noticeable on simpler things, but complex groups will look and feel like $&*#. But it is easier to practice this technique on simpler patterns and then apply it to more complex ones, not the other way around. So, if we have a student who rushed through lower levels and doesn't apply the basic technique properly (even though they heard it before, so they think they know it), wouldn't it be the right thing for the teacher to suggest to go back to the basics so that the technique can be mastered there and applied to more complex things (and more to the point, the student will probably hear the things they heard before and then we'll have the perfect stage for samina's dialogue)? Actually, I think this is the right approach whenever you add layers to your technique. You practice it on the basics, and then apply it to more complicated patterns.

Adding: and btw, speaking of enjoying more input, a person for whom "I know it" means "I heard this before and you don't have to repeat it" does not necessarily enjoy more input especially if it points out that they're not doing something right even if they heard it before.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 12:26:27 PM by ttd » Logged
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2010, 01:56:17 PM »

Sorry for the confusion, but thats how I read your post - and I was referring to technique too (the basic elements of dance).
ee
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
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