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Author Topic: Want to change teachers and partners too often. How come?  (Read 3351 times)
ttd
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« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2010, 04:58:33 PM »

Sorry for the confusion, but thats how I read your post - and I was referring to technique too (the basic elements of dance).
ee
I guess my point was more directed towards the OP, who asserts that knowing and doing are not the same thing. My take on it that in context of a physical skill doing and knowing are same thing, meaning that you haven't mastered the concept until you're doing it. I have been on a lesson when I heard the same info from my teacher yet again and thought to myself "I heard this before, that means I still don't have it". Or he might even say it himself "we talked about this before, but you don't have it yet in your body". But to me that is not so much a reflection of him as a teacher and/or of me as a student, it is rather an indication that I haven't mastered the concept yet. So a) I don't find it that strange when a dance teacher expects that when a student says they know something, then they should be applying this in their dancing and b) I don't see anything wrong with reverting back to basics while you're working on technique <But you and I are not disagreeing on this, I don't think so>
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2010, 07:48:41 PM »

Ah, I see.  Smiley
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dlgodud
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« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2010, 03:02:51 AM »

So I am changing again. No, actually I did.
The reason is my old pro seemed that he was not that interested in teaching, but was very interested in money.
Well, he was ever on time for lessons and often canceled lessons, but was very eager to address about going to competition.
And, also finished lessons early like 5-10 minutes very easily.
If I am a little bit aggressive here, please understand. It makes me upset when I think about him. I've decided to change again after my first competition.

When I went to the competition, he showed up 30minutes before the competition started.
When he changed his clothes, the competition was almost started. He asked me if I wanted to do a warm-up in the ballroom or outside of the ballroom.
I was kind of surprised to be asked to do a warm-up on the carpet. Yes, I did on the carpet for one round and it was my first competition.  Shocked Is this what usually happens?
And, he said that he did not understand why people do warm-up or rounds before competition.  Shocked Is this what usually happens?
So the competition started, and I was waiting for my heat. He did not bother to engage any conversation with me, but short questions and answers. Well, I thought at least it could be
nice if my pro said something encouraging to me, but he did not say anything.  Shocked It was very awkward and very uncomfortable.
He was too busy with playing on his phone. I don't know he was texting or doing something. For almost the entire competition, he was acting like that.
Ok! When they announced results, I placed 2nd. I was quite happy. But, what he said 'good job'. Well, I did not expect him to jump around, but at least isn't it nice to give
a few nice words and congratulate your student when your student does well at the competition?  Roll Eyes Am I asking too much?
And, we got the train station and as soon as we were on the train I asked him if he wanted to receive a check. (I've asked him so many times before going to the competition,
but he asked me pay later.) So I wrote a check and he looked happy. As soon as I saw a smile on his face, honestly, I was disgusted.
So during the entire ride to the city, I refused to speak with him and was playing with my phone.

What do you think? Am I taking this too far or am I acting normal?
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QPO
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« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2010, 05:54:27 AM »

I have not had Pro/Am experience yet so I have nothing to compare that too, but that certainly appears that he is not that interested. I believe there should be warm up before you go on the floor and you are paying for him to be there so he should be giving you his attention.

I will be interested to hear from others who do Pro/Am but I would not be happy with that experience
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2010, 06:34:10 AM »

My read?  He is not the right pro for you but he could be for someone else.  He does seem a bit off-hand - but not unfair or abusive just not very engaged.  I have known MUCH MUCH worse.  [For example, one that conned an older woman into signing a lifetime contract.  Not kidding.  And then stood talking to her on the dance floor for 30, dancing for only 15.]  Then there are the ones that jack up the prices and will not let you know what the costs are for.

He sounds at least up front.  I detest the ones that are so atttentive they are 'smarmy'.  I've watched them - they are warm and kind and helpful to their AM's face but then when the AM looks away they litterally do expressions indicating how disgusting they find them.  I watched that behaviour during the awards ceremony (a most revealing time, as you saw).

Matching to a pro is just as challenging as to an AM partner - you have to have a personality fit.  But remember it is first and foremost a business to the pro, not a friendship and the fact that you pay him for his time can not be ignored.  You are right, of course, part of the contract is to be treated well - thats true whether you are paying for food at a restaurant or a contractor at your home.  Its part of business.  However, the degree to which he gives you personal attention is really one character - and too much personal attention (as above) can be totally offputting since it feels as if he is only being nice to get money from you.  A delicate ballance...

Good luck with the new one - and with the next if necessary!
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ttd
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« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2010, 10:12:53 AM »

Well, warming up on carpet is kinda typical. You don't want to go to the practice room and risk missing your heats. Also, depending on what level you dance and how many students your teacher has, you might not get that much time to warm up. I.e. if you're dancing silver and he has someone doing bronze, he might be competing with them when you show up in the ballroom. And you will need to dance right after their awards.
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dlgodud
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« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2010, 10:26:18 AM »

Well, warming up on carpet is kinda typical. You don't want to go to the practice room and risk missing your heats. Also, depending on what level you dance and how many students your teacher has, you might not get that much time to warm up. I.e. if you're dancing silver and he has someone doing bronze, he might be competing with them when you show up in the ballroom. And you will need to dance right after their awards.

There were no other student except me for that competition. I understand if someone could warm up on the carpet if the situation is like you mentioned above. But, it was not a big competition and was not even crowded. Do you need to take your student out of ballroom when the ballroom floor is open for warming up? I think it is kinda very strange for me.  And, if he arrived probably 10 minutes earlier we probably have an ample time to warm-up, IMO.
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dlgodud
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« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2010, 10:45:23 AM »

My read?  He is not the right pro for you but he could be for someone else.  He does seem a bit off-hand - but not unfair or abusive just not very engaged.  I have known MUCH MUCH worse.  [For example, one that conned an older woman into signing a lifetime contract.  Not kidding.  And then stood talking to her on the dance floor for 30, dancing for only 15.]  Then there are the ones that jack up the prices and will not let you know what the costs are for.

I don't think my case is one of the worst cases you could hear in pro-am relationship. Those cases you mentioned, honestly, it sounds unreal. But, for me he was unfair to be late for lessons average 30 minutes, and give a very short notice of cancellation (usually in the same day of lesson, and 2-3 hours before the lesson). And, at least 3-4 times of cancellation per month, etc. So even though I wasn't treated like those people, but still I don't think I have to put up with his behavior. Oh! I've spoken to him numerous times, and it seems that it did not work. One day, he was late for 10 minutes and I told him I was surprised not to wait for him for 30 minutes. And, he said he was at Starbucks by the studio and was killing time before the lesson.  Shocked


Quote
He sounds at least up front.  I detest the ones that are so atttentive they are 'smarmy'.  I've watched them - they are warm and kind and helpful to their AM's face but then when the AM looks away they litterally do expressions indicating how disgusting they find them.  I watched that behaviour during the awards ceremony (a most revealing time, as you saw).
Well, the old one looked miserable for the entire competition. So is there any difference between that 'smarmy' ones and my old one? At least those provide a customer service. What I am refering here is he did not need to please me. I wanted him to be a pro who could give me advice and try to make me focused. Instead of showing the attitude of 'I did not want to be here tonight. I am just miserable.'. Roll Eyes

Quote
Matching to a pro is just as challenging as to an AM partner - you have to have a personality fit.  But remember it is first and foremost a business to the pro, not a friendship and the fact that you pay him for his time can not be ignored.  You are right, of course, part of the contract is to be treated well - thats true whether you are paying for food at a restaurant or a contractor at your home.  Its part of business.  However, the degree to which he gives you personal attention is really one character - and too much personal attention (as above) can be totally offputting since it feels as if he is only being nice to get money from you.  A delicate ballance...

Like you said, it is a business. I don't even think I will become a friend of any teachers whom I could probably have in the future. I don't need to have a personal attention. What I was asking was being professional who could give advice and try to helpful. Isn't that all included whatever we pay to them?

Good luck with the new one - and with the next if necessary!
[/quote]
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dlgodud
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« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2010, 11:00:28 AM »

Question for you E.

About the case you mentioned above that the pro was disgusted during the award ceremony, do you know why he did that?

The reason I ask this I had an impression with the old one that he was not quite happy for doing pro-am and somehow being ashamed of doing it.

For example, he mentioned a story of his friend saying '" Are you competing with your students, not with your partner?". Well, I cannot describe exactly what happened in words, but the way he looked was very sad when he talked about it.

So, it is a job for them, but if they are so ashamed and disgusted with dancing and competing with their students why do they do that?
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2010, 11:52:02 AM »

To make a living in dance.  Dancesport can be intoxicatingly attractive and perhaps for your pro doing pro-am is better than not doing anything in this world.  But you are right, if he is going to do it then please do so with committment and provide the service that your agreement demands.  Of course what has happened is that his client has decided to go elsewhere, business forces work in pro-am as in any other transaction.  Where it goes awry is when the student gets over-committed to the teacher (read falls in love) and the teacher takes advantage of that attention.  Business relationships then meld into personal ones and it can be very messy indeed.

Reading your posts above its pretty obvious that you were not getting the deal you wanted and, yes, you really should look elsewhere.  Just keep looking in the mirror and make sure you are not asking more than is reasonable (and I am not in any way implying that you have done so with old-teacher; we are but human!).
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

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dlgodud
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« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2010, 04:12:02 PM »

Thanks E!! Yes, I will be reasonable. Don't think I am asking too much. Just What I want from my pro is being punctual and behaving professionally. And, teach well and be helpful when it is needed. I am not a needy person, and hardly request anything and demand.
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2010, 06:56:01 PM »

Sounds very reasonable to me... I hope this one works out, but if not fortunately thats one part of dancing where there are a lot of fish in the pond!!
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
dlgodud
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« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2010, 04:06:31 PM »

So so far I am happy with my new teacher. It seems that he has every quality that my old one did not have. He is very punctual. Also, he tries to make sure that I understand what he is talking about. What else? Hmmmm...... Yeah. Consistency of his mood. Will let you know if I found something else.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 04:09:52 PM by dlgodud » Logged
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2010, 06:33:17 PM »

Sounds terrific thus far... But can he also dance? Roll Eyes
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
dlgodud
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« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2010, 11:40:10 PM »

Sounds terrific thus far... But can he also dance? Roll Eyes
Shocked
I actually don't know about that.  Tongue
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