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Author Topic: Pro/Am & Am/Am rules  (Read 5313 times)
Dora-Satya Veda
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« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2009, 02:03:38 AM »

It was called a world tour with competitions in Europe and Asia
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DancesportInfo
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« Reply #46 on: July 02, 2009, 01:33:39 PM »

BTW I corresponded with the owner of dancesportinfo about tracking pro-am couples but it was both too much work and not really of interest to him - they are located in europe I believe where pro-am is rather small.
It is almost true Smiley Theproblem is that we are stretching our resources (human and financial) to manage traditional dancesport competitions. If we were financed by one or more of the pro-am organisations we will do similar website for pro am as well.
I am saying other, because pro-am has different concepts than normal dancesport, for example there are no permanent couples on one side while we should provide separate rating for pro partner and separate for "am" partner. There is no country representation, but there is an organisation which couple belong to.
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emeralddancer
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« Reply #47 on: July 02, 2009, 01:38:58 PM »

wow .... and this makes perfect sense.

I can see it would probably take more resources in order to do what DSI.net is doing just on the am/am side. Like double work keeping track of the Pros and then the Ams. right?

AND not all AMs are even registered. (we do not need to depending on the comp)  hm ... interesting.

PLUS ... then you have the independants, Arthur Murrays and Fred Astaires. I understand many cross over, but where er how would it be "beneficial" in rankings when comps vary to such a degree in the americas?

Does this make sense?
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #48 on: July 03, 2009, 11:41:00 AM »

BTW I corresponded with the owner of dancesportinfo about tracking pro-am couples but it was both too much work and not really of interest to him - they are located in europe I believe where pro-am is rather small.
It is almost true Smiley Theproblem is that we are stretching our resources (human and financial) to manage traditional dancesport competitions. If we were financed by one or more of the pro-am organisations we will do similar website for pro am as well.
I am saying other, because pro-am has different concepts than normal dancesport, for example there are no permanent couples on one side while we should provide separate rating for pro partner and separate for "am" partner. There is no country representation, but there is an organisation which couple belong to.


I think you will find that the couples are really quite as permanent as those for AM.  The pro/ams I know change pros very rarely.  We could perhaps get some stats on this here.

Also, you would have to limit it to just schollarship or, multidance and schollarship since the others (single dance events) would be a nightmare to sort out. 

Think of us as an information resource on the issue  - together we have quite a collective experience in a wide range of pro/am issues Smiley

ee
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MusicChica
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« Reply #49 on: July 03, 2009, 03:40:52 PM »

The pro/ams I know change pros very rarely.

And when they do, it's as much drama as when a pro partnership breaks up! Cheesy

I do think it might be difficult for the site to track all of the different partnerships one single pro in pro-am would have--like Ben Ermis, for example, could easily have more than 15 separate records.  Add in name misspellings in the programs/entries, and you've got a big mess on your hands.  That's where I think it could get confusing.
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elisedance
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« Reply #50 on: July 03, 2009, 03:52:12 PM »

you are right there - but tracking the pro/amer as a member of a partnership might be possible. 
I suppose thats how its set up on the dancesportseries.
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standarddancer
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« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2009, 08:43:13 PM »

dancesport is right, it's mostly about funding, financing, the site is sponsored by ads links, if pro-am organizations could sponsor this ranking system, would be more doable, it takes a lot man power and time to sort out results, and they really need volunteers, if someone could be volunteer to supply pro-am results, maybe more doable as well, dancesport info is European site, without US volunteer, very difficult for them to track US results.

What's the dancesportseries website? maybe they could do it right there?
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elisedance
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« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2009, 12:16:10 AM »

thats rather a hot potato.  they have a site that sort of tracks pro-ams based on a point system - but they give a lot of points based on what you pay in entries and not on how you truly perform.  Same thing goes on at competitions - the top student needent actually beat anyone, they just have to spend a lot of money on entries. 

I have always found it disappointing, even demeaning, to the real pro-am dancesport athletes (some of which I have seen this weekend by the way) who are just as fit, able and competetive as top amams in their respective age groups.  The team match points - like the ISDT you accumulate points based both on good performance and the number of competitions/heats you enter.  They are a bit more realistic but the way they are compiled its rather hard to figure out who is actually ranked top. 
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standarddancer
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« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2009, 10:30:45 AM »

I see, maybe you could recommend  to have 2 system rank pro-am couples:
1)   Based on entries amount, point system
2)   Based on comp performance – how they truly ranked based on competition, similar data base like dancesport info but maybe without couples rating…
And make them searchable like dancesport info
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elisedance
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« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2009, 12:00:53 PM »

I wish.  In a sense the dancesport series does that - the comp entries, etc is the first and the team match points are the second.  The main trouble with the team match points do not take into account the strength of the competition at a comp - thus someone who wins first in a comp with two entries (single entries do only get half points) where the second couple is a bronze level say get 30 points - the same as the winner at the Emerald where the second couple was also an OSB finalist.

Thats the beauty of the dancesportinfo site - points are ranked according to the strength of the competitors in that heat and its why their numbers have credence.
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elisedance
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« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2009, 12:02:24 PM »

Forgot to mention the other reason - and that is the team match event itself as the goal.  Really they should have a competition for the top ranked pro/am couples accross the boaord.  That would be the Dancesport Series Champions and would have real credence.
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ttd
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« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2009, 02:12:09 PM »

Forgot to mention the other reason - and that is the team match event itself as the goal.  Really they should have a competition for the top ranked pro/am couples accross the boaord.  That would be the Dancesport Series Champions and would have real credence.

Don't open pro-am multidances at major competitions such as OSB, USDSC and similar already fit the tab? Somebody just needs to track those results.
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