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Author Topic: Is ballroom dancing a 'dead' art form?  (Read 941 times)
elisedance
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« on: September 07, 2010, 04:14:37 AM »

Sometimes it feels to me as if everything that can be done in ballroom has been done and that perhaps the administration is too tight so that creativity is discouraged.

Is this opinion justified?
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QPO
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2010, 07:26:00 AM »

I feel that there are groups of administrators that are not moving with the times and doding what they always do, and it is not the apporach tha the sport needs to grow. Youngsters have much more choice that they every did, it is no longer to be a soical place to meet others.

If they can realise that I think it could have a great future. I am doinjg my best have written to three TV stations this week already on this very topic.
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dlgodud
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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2010, 08:49:11 AM »

Yes, sometimes......
That's probably the reason I like couples who do something new in dancing instead of doing the same old fashioned steps.  Roll Eyes
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ZPomeroy
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« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2010, 08:50:13 AM »

I certainty don't believe that! Ballroom is constantly evolving,  variations on steps/sequences appear quite frequently and even to an extent 'new' figures do show their head every once and a while. In my opinion the next step in creativity for ballroom is the interpretation of music, similar to what 'abanich' was talking about before he became a troll. Following the ebb and flow of the music, as the music crescendos so does the complexity of the figures etc. there is still plenty of room for improvement in this musicality area, and personally would love to see it done!

Zac
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ttd
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« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2010, 05:42:52 PM »

A few points. First there is a limitation of what a human body can physically do (I mean, for example, we can't float in mid-air, gravity just doesn't allow it). Second, at any given point, there's only so many directions we can go, so again, it is a physical limitation of any art form involving a human body moving through space. And third, I think the more ballroom develops, the longer it takes people to get to the point when they feel comfortable breaking away from the established form and trying new things, because the bar is set so high. So the evolution is going to slow down.
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Some guy
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« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2010, 07:42:30 PM »

I saw the amateur standard final this weekend with some world IDSF Grand Slam finalists in it.  Trust me, it's evolving faster than we ever thought possible.  I used to think there was such a thing as human limitations to ballroom dancing.  I never realized that the partnership aspect blows away the individual human limitations. As for levitation, it's only matter of time.   
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TangoDancer
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2010, 09:51:41 PM »

The thing is that there has to be a distinction between BR and DS. They are not the same; never were; never will be. Yet, there are they who are constantly and consistently trying to umbrella the two. DS all but destroyed BR because of this. BR has found a niche back, and will continue to evolve into a wonderful social thing equal to its prior heydays. SG speaks of evolution in DS, which is very true, but very different.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
Some guy
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2010, 11:22:46 PM »

The thing is that there has to be a distinction between BR and DS. They are not the same; never were; never will be. Yet, there are they who are constantly and consistently trying to umbrella the two. DS all but destroyed BR because of this. BR has found a niche back, and will continue to evolve into a wonderful social thing equal to its prior heydays. SG speaks of evolution in DS, which is very true, but very different.
Wow TD!  I would love to know more of this rift.  I thought these were one in the same.  That seems to explain why the amateur ranks are just everyone trying to race around the track faster and reaching speeds beyond what I thought was capable while the pros seem to not worry about getting into a race but just fleshing out the dancing in itself. 
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elisedance
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2010, 06:50:14 AM »

But (forgive me if I am wrong) I don't think TD meant such a division, between pros and AMs - they are two ends of DS and the latter is the source of the former.  I read that to mean DS (all pros AMs and pro-ams Wink ) as distinct from 'advanced social dancing' (which is definitely not an oxymoron).  Perhaps the AT community is a better role model for the latter.

I'd like to hear more and wonder if maybe I would fit better into the latter since to me dance is first about emotion...
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Some guy
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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2010, 11:46:05 AM »

True Elise.  I was not very clear in my thoughts (what else is new?!).  I meant that I see amateurs as trying to make dancing a sport while the pros seems to be concerned more with the artistic aspect of it, thereby representing truer ballroom.  Of course, I'm talking about both levels at the very top.  At the lower levels, it does seem like everyone is trying to outdo each other, thereby making it seem more like a sport. 
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TangoDancer
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« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2010, 03:13:00 AM »

True Elise.  I was not very clear in my thoughts (what else is new?!).  I meant that I see amateurs as trying to make dancing a sport while the pros seems to be concerned more with the artistic aspect of it, thereby representing truer ballroom.  Of course, I'm talking about both levels at the very top.  At the lower levels, it does seem like everyone is trying to outdo each other, thereby making it seem more like a sport. 

And, your post is very interesting because the goal of making dance a sport, and less about the studios/students was precipitated by the pros. I see much of what you are describing, both good and bad, currently done by both. I see the majority of the pros; racing about, interjecting more and more nonBR elements, and caring less of the student than "...being a household name like Hollywood stars..." (an actual quote from a well known pro when asked during a televised interview, "Where would you like to be in your dancing in 5 years?"). It's the old problem like in ice skating... last year 3 jumps with 3 turns was awe inspiring, so this year, everyone's going for 4.

I see the problem of the ams that you are referring to as one of copying what they see the pros doing, and getting great marks for. As to your other point, what has [seemingly] happened is that there are they who have said, "A Quadruple Axle with a Double Overhead Spin and a Ham Sandwich is enough. I'm going to just dance well". And, they are the ones who, IMO, are the better dancers.

An athlete can be a good dancer, but only a dancer can bring life to the dance.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
elisedance
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« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2010, 04:37:27 AM »

But this happens to everything that becomes popular - or rather where there are gains to be made (by gains I mean mostly financial but they can be other things to like high honours (nobels in science or oscars in acting).  The rationalle for the activity changes from its original intent (discovery of truth in science, enactment of human emotion in acting) to this new standard (power, awards , money and even glamour in both). 

In dancing there is, however, another factor.  The 'problem' for me is that the judging seems to be primarily about how well you can something that was done before - technical prowess and also emulation of a previous star.  No credit - indeed, detriment is poured on anyone who tries to do a truly novel idea.  Interestingly, this also occurs in science (believe it or not): if you state a novel concept most scientists will tear it appart with a passion that goes far beyond a respect for the truth...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Bordertangoman
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« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2010, 07:05:13 AM »

But this happens to everything that becomes popular - or rather where there are gains to be made (by gains I mean mostly financial but they can be other things to like high honours (nobels in science or oscars in acting).  The rationalle for the activity changes from its original intent (discovery of truth in science, enactment of human emotion in acting) to this new standard (power, awards , money and even glamour in both). 

In dancing there is, however, another factor.  The 'problem' for me is that the judging seems to be primarily about how well you can something that was done before - technical prowess and also emulation of a previous star.  No credit - indeed, detriment is poured on anyone who tries to do a truly novel idea.  Interestingly, this also occurs in science (believe it or not): if you state a novel concept most scientists will tear it appart with a passion that goes far beyond a respect for the truth...

the heresy effect........
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emeralddancer
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« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2010, 04:17:56 PM »

Even here though the discussion is revolving around more of DS rather than BR as TD suggested.

It is a wonder (and while I DO see a swing back to BR) that BR will make a resurgence. (ie: meaning that dancing for the love of dance, music, expression.)

Which brings to discussion for me
1. Why do many instructors 'push' even slightly towards BR dancers to do DS
2. Why can not people (in general) if they truly want a social atmosphere and to truly promote the benefits of social dancing .... DO just that?
3. Why not foster a genuine love of dance and goals of dance that express true dance in it's joy, in it's musicality, it's expression, etc? (because you can accomplish those objectives without DS, right?) (or are people more predisposed to competitive, even in dance?)
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2010, 08:51:43 PM »

Even here though the discussion is revolving around more of DS rather than BR as TD suggested.

It is a wonder (and while I DO see a swing back to BR) that BR will make a resurgence. (ie: meaning that dancing for the love of dance, music, expression.)

Which brings to discussion for me
1. Why do many instructors 'push' even slightly towards BR dancers to do DS
2. Why can not people (in general) if they truly want a social atmosphere and to truly promote the benefits of social dancing .... DO just that?
3. Why not foster a genuine love of dance and goals of dance that express true dance in it's joy, in it's musicality, it's expression, etc? (because you can accomplish those objectives without DS, right?) (or are people more predisposed to competitive, even in dance?)

The answer can be summed up in three rather novel answers
1. Money
2. Money
2. You distract people from paying Money

QED
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
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