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Author Topic: Blaming Your Dance Partner  (Read 11109 times)
cornutt
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« Reply #165 on: October 12, 2009, 04:03:47 PM »

Tough situation.  Maybe, for the time being, what you need to do with the Russian is simplify your standard routines; go back to first principles with her.  It sounds like maybe she's a bit overwhelmed with all of the things she's trying to learn at once.  Take some bits out for a while, and once she's learned the simplified routines, you can go back and re-visit the more complex stuff. 

Ultimately, you may have to make a decision regarding her, though.  If she insists that she wants you to partner her in standard, and yet she's not picking it up, you may have to draw the line.  At that point you'll have to be prepared for the possibility that she'll abandon the partnership altogether, but that might be preferable to continuing to struggle through standard with her. 

How long will it be before the Czech can dance again?
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Ginger
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I see what you did there.


« Reply #166 on: October 12, 2009, 11:52:13 PM »

I got figuratively kicked in the teeth today by someone I was trying to help.

When there's a spare guy, I fill in. I always enjoy filling in with this particular spare guy, but the thing is, when he was in our beginner class, he listened to us and we could "teach" him. Now that he's in the second level class and we're more friend than teacher to him, he doesn't have to take us seriously. Especially me, because I'm just a follow, and "Oh, you just don't know how to break it down for me. I need to dance it with you dragging me through it several times, then I want you to let me lead you through it several times with you correcting me, and then I need you to drag me through it again with some milder help, and then I need to do it myself. I need to dance this way at parties, but nobody will dance with me, and I can't imagine why, since I always compare their negative traits to the positive traits of my coach who's been about as consistent with me as a squirrel on X rolling downhill in a barrel. "

So he wants a friend, and his very own personal, private tutor right in the middle of a group class and at parties. I'm the *only* person who will do anything for him (don't ask, it's a SwingWaltz-thread-kinda thing) like this, and every time I bend over backwards and try to help, he takes me to the coach and goes "Okay, what's she doing wrong?"

So I finally just... break- I start the "silent and horribly embarrassed sniffle" and get totally choked up IN the middle of the restaurant WHILE he's going off on me.

My confidence in teaching people is seriously undermined and on way shaky ground again. Why is it I don't have any problems teaching away from "home", but at the studio that's supposed to be "home", everyone thinks I'm a lunatic and doesn't understand a word I say, nor do they seem to try?

I feel like a moron and an outright joke among my local peers.
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Some guy
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« Reply #167 on: October 13, 2009, 12:21:22 AM »

Keep your chin up Ginger.  That fact that the most objective people (out-of-town folks) appreciate you mean that they are only judging you on the content of your information and appreciating that.  So I think that in itself must mean you're a really good teacher.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 12:24:36 AM by Some guy » Logged
Some guy
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« Reply #168 on: October 13, 2009, 12:22:48 AM »

Ginger, so sorry to hear what you have to go through.  I loved the SwingWaltz-thread-kinda thing reference because I think his is a very endearing and heart-warming blog that I love to read, but I think it's nice that we're developing our own lingo here: makes me feel like "family".  

I wonder if what you're going through is sort of like what most top pro couples experience.  For example, the top pros who have been together for a long time usually are not aware of the full capabilities of their partner.  They frequently discount their partner's abilities just because they have grown with them but not necessarily noticed that the other person has actually "grown" as a person/dancer/teacher.  Husbands and wives experience this all the time: one spouse is paid hundreds of dollars an hour by clients for advice but that same person's advice at home is perceived as worth less than 2-cents.

I'm sure someone here will know more about this phenomenon.     Huh
« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 12:24:51 AM by Some guy » Logged
Ginger
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I see what you did there.


« Reply #169 on: October 13, 2009, 01:23:48 AM »

For the record though, we're just "locals"- horsepeople would call us "backyard trainers"- no accreditation, but results are so far in our favor with beginners and such.

Thanks- I just... ugh, I was really hoping it wouldn't be like this in dancing, too.

J's the analytical, textbook one- he's the 'architect' for our students, and I'm the 'interior decorator'. It's working so far, I guess.

I pick on SwingWaltz because he's fun, though, not because I want to be mean to him. (SW, if I'm being too mean, tell me, and I'll stop, I promise! Like I said- I'm a big awful sweaty redhead- you have to keep us in check!)
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SwingWaltz
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« Reply #170 on: October 13, 2009, 01:42:06 AM »

I am so confused right now! HA!  Roll Eyes
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TangoDancer
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« Reply #171 on: October 13, 2009, 05:07:38 AM »

Ginger,

The probelem is not yours. Please do not take on this person's ill burdens as your own. This is a common problem w/ many persons. It is probably just human nature to relate everything from one's own pov or por (point of view/point of reference). Yet, what we all must do is to learn how to view the world through the eyes of the world. That is to say, do not take this fellows words as a reflection of yourself, but as a reflection of him. you are not failing to teach him... he is failing to learn what you have to offer.

Persons in BR can be some of the most trying persons I have ever encountered... and, for many reasons. 1. BR seems to attract persons who need to be fulfilled in some way. They have a need. Once that need is being fulfilled, they begin to feel whole/empowered by the newly seeding strength. The unfortunate part is that they have not learned yet to not look at the world's perception of them for their self worth. They do not look inward. They measure their budding improvement by how much it impacts others rather than themselves. Often, this arrives in the form of a look-what-i-have-become, or I-measure-up-because-I-am--better now persona. Again, this would not be bad if measured inwardly. However, b/c they are looking outwardly, their unspoken, but very evident meaning is I-measure-up-because-I-am--better now [than you]. Unfortunate; sad; but true.

The other thing is that we are often dealing w/ adults who have never learned that an adult is nothing more than an old/older child. For example, if your friend were in school, he would never dream of telling the teacher how he needed to be taught. He would simply go in; sit at his desk; shut up; and, pay attention. if he were lucky...he might learn something along the way. Yet, as an adult, he feels that he has gained a right to tell you what he needs, even though if he knew, then he wouldn't be there. It is very difficult for many adults to understand that they are there in a learning capacity, and need to remember how to be a child... a student. Would that they knew this, and that, if so, their dancing would better much quicker.

Lastly, one in your position must learn to adapt to/live with this type of person. BR makes us feel great inside. It makes us feel more whole. With this mental growth, however, there is, often, a slower emotional growth. Regardless of how much one feels empowered, BR is a very intimate art/sport, and intimacy, even in platonic form, makes one very vulnerable. Though we feel empowered, we feel weakened. Unfortunately, many refute this by showing others how in control they wish they were. Too often, this comes out in a hurtful tone, or gesture, or manner, or outcome. You must know that this is not your probleme; it is his. Offer to continue to teach him, if he can only stop for a moment, and remember how you and others helped him to get to where he is when he knew nothing. Remind him that you could, if allowed, continue to guide him past where he is. Assure him that if he continues to knowingly, intentionally, or not, belittle those who are there to help, then he is already as good as he will ever be.

Sorry, guys, for the long post.    Embarrassed
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
elisedance
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« Reply #172 on: October 13, 2009, 06:22:20 AM »

I'm having difficulty with a dance partner.  I have two, one very strong in latin one very strong in standard.

.....
I want to continue dancing with the Russian but don't know how to encourage her to improve if I'm not allowed to say anything. She only wants me to encourage her and i understand the sentiment, I don't wwork well if people point out my shortcomings constantly, I just get worse and worse. So I'm stuck, I need and want her to improve but don't know how to if I'm not allowed to point out mistakes.

CSN: You didn't mention this but I presume the two women know of each other?  Too bad about partner 1 eh?  Any sign of improvement?

Having two partners has definite plusses and negatives.  The plus is that you will be a much better social dancer if you do not get locked into one person.  However, I can't see becoming a serious competetive dancer with such an arrangement.  Its actually not the dancing (I dance with two partners too - though in my case they have different goals, one is a coach (pro/am) and the other an AM partner) but the development of the partnership as your common goal.  Serious competition dancing takes a lot of time and most of all committment.  We joke about it as a more serious relationship that marriage - and in its intensity it really can be.  You have to be able to discuss your dancing and not take offence and run away.  You have to stick with each other through injury and personal turmoil (up to a point of course), basically you really have to be a team. 

I can't imagine doing that with two people in the same dance area - it sounds convenient but remember the convenience is on both sides, without a committment your two partners can switch to a different lead when they choose.

On those lines what does the Oriental think?  Is she happy with you dancing with another woman too?  Does she want to get into a formal dancepartnership?  If so I'm with your coaches.  Commit to one - you will find, I think, that she will make more time available or you will find new times to get together (we often practise at 9 am for example).  I would reduce the dancing with the Russian to the occasional level - though prepare for some upset .....
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The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Bordertangoman
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« Reply #173 on: October 14, 2009, 06:26:37 AM »

......its unsettling to think if I change for the better that we will be two women dancing........

Shocked Shocked

..which begs the question: is it masculine to be reasonable??  or am I missing something...

surely you mean is it reasonable to be masculine?
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”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
elisedance
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« Reply #174 on: October 14, 2009, 06:36:08 AM »

Cheesy

you might well ask...

But for that matter, is it rational to be female?
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Bordertangoman
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« Reply #175 on: October 14, 2009, 06:51:20 AM »

I got figuratively kicked in the teeth today by someone I was trying to help.

When there's a spare guy, I fill in. I always enjoy filling in with this particular spare guy, but the thing is, when he was in our beginner class, he listened to us and we could "teach" him. Now that he's in the second level class and we're more friend than teacher to him, he doesn't have to take us seriously. Especially me, because I'm just a follow, and "Oh, you just don't know how to break it down for me. I need to dance it with you dragging me through it several times, then I want you to let me lead you through it several times with you correcting me, and then I need you to drag me through it again with some milder help, and then I need to do it myself. I need to dance this way at parties, but nobody will dance with me, and I can't imagine why, since I always compare their negative traits to the positive traits of my coach who's been about as consistent with me as a squirrel on X rolling downhill in a barrel. "

So he wants a friend, and his very own personal, private tutor right in the middle of a group class and at parties. I'm the *only* person who will do anything for him (don't ask, it's a SwingWaltz-thread-kinda thing) like this, and every time I bend over backwards and try to help, he takes me to the coach and goes "Okay, what's she doing wrong?"

So I finally just... break- I start the "silent and horribly embarrassed sniffle" and get totally choked up IN the middle of the restaurant WHILE he's going off on me.

My confidence in teaching people is seriously undermined and on way shaky ground again. Why is it I don't have any problems teaching away from "home", but at the studio that's supposed to be "home", everyone thinks I'm a lunatic and doesn't understand a word I say, nor do they seem to try?

I feel like a moron and an outright joke among my local peers.

EEK well sounds like a tricky situation. I think distance is often helpful in maintaing clarity in teaching. I had a friend who was struggling with the tango I was teaching him; he had just hit his own glass ceiling and rather than fix his problems I sidesteeped the issue and suggested that he could and get an impartial tutour to help him. He did and it worked..

So we have intersting situations where people are not prepared to listen or respect what one has to say or see a problem as your fault when it is theirs. I sometimes offer advice when I'm not the official teacher but I ask if I can make a suggestion. If the person isnt willing to listen which might be for different reasons; that they're feeling really frustrated/angry/disappointed or whatever. Its using a little of Non_violent Communication to establish a dialogue before and or during offering advice.

If the coach is good he/she will sort out the problem. If this person is always attributing problems to you; then I think you have to set a few boundaries.

A good NVC technique is to ask the other person to repeat back to you what they heard you say, and then you hear the intrepretation that they put on what you said; ie what they heard was different to what you said.
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”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
Bordertangoman
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« Reply #176 on: October 14, 2009, 06:55:16 AM »

Cheesy

you might well ask...

But for that matter, is it rational to be female?

" that is not logical" Tuvok
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”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #177 on: October 14, 2009, 09:47:10 AM »

au contraire, its delightfully self-proving Smiley ...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Bordertangoman
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« Reply #178 on: October 14, 2009, 10:10:27 AM »

au contraire, its delightfully self-proving Smiley ...

full of yeast then!!! Undecided
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”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
elisedance
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ee


« Reply #179 on: October 14, 2009, 10:16:30 AM »

well, I think we solved the question of which sex is less logical - we're still working on the delightful catagory!
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
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