partnerdanceonline.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 31, 2014, 04:47:40 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
A lot of people are visiting Smiley Smiley
Undecided Undecided but not many are posting....
please say hi Cheesy
116470 Posts in 1856 Topics by 221 Members
Latest Member: EVE_Dance
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  partnerdanceonline.com
|-+  Partner Dancing
| |-+  Partner Dances
| | |-+  General partner dance issues (Moderators: Rugby, cornutt)
| | | |-+  Blaming Your Dance Partner
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 14 Print
Author Topic: Blaming Your Dance Partner  (Read 11225 times)
emeralddancer
Intermediate Gold
**
Posts: 2979

Nottingham, MD (by way of NJ)


« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2009, 11:06:21 AM »

I am also learning to that if my partner and I disagree, as a follow ... even if I really do not agree, I will "give in" without giving it. (make sense?)

I was recently told ... by my mentor/mom it is called "henning" on the follows part. (I just use to call it getting my way with out them (men) thinking it wasn't their idea in the first place)

Anyway ... once I adopted her approach and "gave in" or "henned" ... my lessons have been better and much improved. I am learning to voice my displeasure or not agree in a totally new way. Most times he has no clue it wasn't his idea to begin with.

BUT that being said ... it has also forced me into a different place with my dancing. I am learning to listen with more than just my ears. Because many times my ego would just step in and I was always like but what about this, what? what you say. No this doesn't feel right. Once I basically shut up. Stopped, took in, turned on .... etc ... I realized blaming or fighting, I was creating the least amount of impact on my dancing. So NOW I feel like (whether we do a lesson everyday or once a week) I get maximum impact because:

1. left ego at the door (getting so much easier to recognized too)
2."hen" my pro
3. listening more than just with my ears and closing my mouth.

Logged

It is more important who they are as people and only then is it important who they are as dancers.~Marcia Haydee
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
*
Posts: 1464


« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2009, 12:10:05 PM »

Please explain henning.  Sounds interesting.   

I know why we have to leave our ego at the door, but I would like to play Devil's Advocate for a moment, simply because I'm having trouble with leaving my ego at the door.

The ego is there to protect one's self.  If we leave our ego at the door, what's going to protect us? 

First example (ego left at the door): when dancing Standard, my partner used to always complain that my right arm was too strong for her.  She wanted me to loosen it up to where she could barely feel any tone in it.  I initially had a problem with this because it went against everything any coach, including my current coach,  told me.  They told me NOT to turn my right arm into spaghetti.  However, because it was causing my partner pain, I decided to do just that.  It took another five $85 sessions with my coach to re-instill the tone in my arm that I had completely banished.  It turned out that it was my partner who was doing something wrong with her body that caused the self-inflicted pain.  I am still having trouble getting back the tone in my arm because I've learned to dance without thinking about it. 

Second example (ego taken onto the ballroom floor): there was a part in the Jive where my partner kept "blaming" me telling me that my lead was terrible.  I went over it with her several times and she insisted that there was something she was supposed to do there that I wasn't leading.  So my lead was conflicting with her choreography.  She said the step was painful for her because my wrong lead was too strong and she had to fight it hard in order to do her step.  I didn't give in as my ego immediately rejected the possibility of a bad lead for one main reason: I had gone over this step multiple times with my coach and my coachliked my lead.  The only thing my coach didn't like was that, if anything, my lead wasn't strong enough.  My partner and I ended up getting into a huge argument because she insisted that my lead was "crappy" and that I had no clue what I was doing.  I kept telling my partner we'll ask our coach but she kept wanting to try and kept trying to tell me how to lead it.  When she started trying to teach me how to lead it, that's when my ego stepped it up a notch and "fought" her off.  In other words, my ego was protecting my investment in my knowledge of the step.  Since our Latin coaches live in the same city and are more accessible to us, we finally asked them and they confirmed that I was right. 

So while leaving the ego at the door is necessary, the ego can also save you lots of time and money by sticking firm and not letting your partner give in. 

Question is, how do you leave your ego at the door AND protect yourself at the same time?  Is there anything in the absence of ego that can protect you?  Does leaving your ego at the door work if your partner doesn't do the same?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 12:18:06 PM by Some guy » Logged
ttd
Open Bronze
*
Posts: 642


« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2009, 12:11:44 PM »

Well, I used to practice with my wife and for some reason it would always degenerate into a blame game. It's pretty easy to do so if you are not watching out for it. I've been practicing with some other ladies at studio lately (got OK from wife) and I'm really making an effort to keep my thoughts in check. I agree with Waltzelf that many times the problems are with way steps are being led. Even if lady is having problems doing her part, if man is leading properly, most of time lady will follow. When we encounter problems with a step, I try and determine what I'm doing on my part. Many times I'm able to determine what's wrong and make adjustments. If can't determine, we save problem steps for discussion later with coach. This approach seems to work well for both me and practice partners and we're making some good progress. Sometimes if run into problem step, partner will ask me what I feel from them or if I have any suggestions for their part. In this case, I try to give objective response in positive tone. But have to be careful doing this and if doesn't work, just say we'll save this problem for coach.

That was part of our problem when I danced with my husband. At first, I was the new to dancing and he has taken some lessons over years, so he knew *something*. So I would get blamed for everything. But 5 years ago, I was offered an opportunity to compete pro-am (my husband did not want to compete with me at that time, he said we'll look like idiots). So I started taking lessons on my own and I advanced more than he did. Also, as I learned more I have realized that a lot of issues we were having were really problems with his leading. And I wasn't going to accept blame for everything going wrong anymore. And I wasn't going to go where he thought he lead me, I wanted to actually follow the lead. And then we also found that we were not on the same page wrt what we want to learn. He wanted to learn more different patterns in different dances. I wanted to learn more technique to get better in what we already knew. And so the combination of it all - him going from the more advanced partner to less advanced, differences in goals, differences in how we express frustration (he yells and rants, I give silent treatment) - made it pretty much obvious that we were better off not dancing together.
Logged
pruthe
Bronze
*
Posts: 274



« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2009, 01:57:46 PM »

Some Guy, ttd,

What I was trying to suggest in my post is that you want to avoid getting into the blame game in the first place. And maybe there needs to be an agreement made between you and your partner as to what the goals are and how to achieve them. If one or the other party doesn't want to follow agreed path, then maybe it's time to move on to something else. In my case, our teachers have given us predefined practice routines at bronze, silver and gold levels. We are working on these routines and identifying problem areas. If we can figure problems on our own, then fine, but if not, we save them for teachers. Maybe if we can make it through all these routines without any problems, we might consider doing other routines (e.g. open). But until then, we are working on the existing routines. Don't get pulled into the blame game. It's not worth it.
Logged

"It's not what you do, but how you do it."

"The Truth in Ballroom Dance is found in the Basic steps."

A.S.
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35013


ee


« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2009, 05:35:57 PM »

Sorry for any confusion everyone but rather than having the same topic on two boards I felt it better that we merge them into one. I wanted to keep the title of Blaming Your Dance Partner but now it has gone under catsmeow instead of Some Guy.  Elisedance may be able to correct this.
{maybe she can but she doesn't have a clue how!! Smiley)
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Vagabond
Intermediate Silver
*
Posts: 1333


~ Mai Più Senza! ~


« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2009, 08:49:53 PM »

People have a tendency to find someone to blame when bad things happen. This behavior is certainly very prevalent and easy to observe in children. The burgeoning personal liability business in our country attests to the pervasiveness of this tendency among adults as well.

     Psychological theory and research examining this observed human behavior is quite complicated and incomplete.  There is some empirical data emerging to explain why people blame others but for the most part much of our understanding is based on theory and speculation.  The authors cited below have developed a theory of blame prediction based on several situational and personal characteristics.

     There are four situational factors that affect the likelihood that other-blame will occur.  The presence of another at the time of the event increases the probability of that person being blamed. This is why surgeons and obstetricians seem to be blamed much more frequently than general practitioners.  The former are more likely to be there when a bad event occurs while the latter deal with insidious or chronic problems that have no discrete starting point.  In education, it is more likely, for example, that a teacher who retains a student will be blamed for the student's academic difficulties even ten years later despite the fact that the problems were there long before the event and continued afterwards.

     Another factor is the perceived knowledge or authority of the other person.  Individuals who are knowledgeable are expected to anticipate negative outcomes and avoid them.

     A third factor is how well known the other person is to the victim.  If the victim knows the other person well, blame is less likely to result.  An example of this is the greater likelihood of one driver suing another for an accident. They are usually strangers.  It is much less common for an injured passenger to sue the driver of the car he or she was I since they are more likely to know each other.

     Finally, the more severe the outcome of the event, the more likely someone will be blamed.  When two students argue in class, teachers are not usually concerned with who is to blame.  In contrast, when two students fight on the playground and one is injured, it is more likely that some effort will be expended to determine who was to blame.

     There are also two personal factors that are related to the likelihood that other-blame will occur.  One is the person's ability to find the good or benefit in a bad situation. This ability is characterized by statements such as "Maybe it is for the better," and "Some good may come out of this."  Similarly, people who tend to make downward comparisons (e.g., "I am fortunate for what I have.  Others have lost so much more.") are less likely to blame others.

     The other factor is the person's attributional style.  Some people tend to find fault with others in many situations regardless of the circumstances.  Every teacher has run across at least one such parent.  No matter how illogical the rationale, some people cling to the need to blame others for everything bad that happens.  In contrast, other people have an attributional style which leads to a tendency to blame themselves no matter how obviously blameworthy someone else is.

     In any given situation, an analysis of the interplay of these factors can lead to a better understanding of when and why other-blame takes place.

Tennen, H. & Affleck, G. (1990).  Blaming others for threatening events.  Psychological Bulletin, 108 (2), 209-232.


Logged

Dancing with the feet is one thing, but dancing with the heart is another.
QPO
reg mods
Continental Champion
****
Posts: 20824


Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2009, 10:20:02 PM »

Nerd alert....V we have a thread for you  Tongue

Very Interesting article BTW
Logged

Dance is a delicate balance between perfection and beauty.  ~Author Unknown
Dance Forum
Vagabond
Intermediate Silver
*
Posts: 1333


~ Mai Più Senza! ~


« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2009, 10:28:30 PM »

Well its nerd like myslf that try to find answers to common mishaps and problems. Science is a great tool that one can use at his/her fingertips as long as the mind is like an open umbrella.
Logged

Dancing with the feet is one thing, but dancing with the heart is another.
Lioness
Open Gold
***
Posts: 4322



WWW
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2009, 03:47:30 AM »

Dp tends to want to take all the blame, even if I know that something is my fault. I tell him that, and he just tells me that it was his fault for leading it badly/getting in the way/not doing something right.

He's wrong most of the time, of course.
Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35013


ee


« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2009, 06:43:09 AM »

He's right by being wrong Wink  What a guy...
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
QPO
reg mods
Continental Champion
****
Posts: 20824


Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2009, 09:18:45 AM »

Leading is the hardest thing, next to following Roll Eyes....but as long as you don't bang each other over the head...especially while you are learning. It is a journey after all
Logged

Dance is a delicate balance between perfection and beauty.  ~Author Unknown
Dance Forum
SwingWaltz
Gold Star
***
Posts: 5772


« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2009, 10:08:56 AM »

Althought the phrase "It's not you, it's me" sounds a bit cliche in certain circumstances, I'm sure your partner won't get offended if you say that about your dancing.
Logged
Dora-Satya Veda
Gold Star
***
Posts: 6871


« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2009, 11:19:17 AM »

Let me just play devils advocaat here....

I totally understand blaming your partner. My partner and I did our fair share of that. My teacher used to refuse to teach students the never blamed each other for anything and that never had an argument. Today I must say I feel the same way. I am now able to be choosy with the students that I teach and if the couple don’t blame each other and never argue, I will not teach them.

Dora-Satya Veda

Logged

"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
pruthe
Bronze
*
Posts: 274



« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2009, 12:43:09 PM »

I'm going to say one more thing and then shut up. In my experience, "blame" between partners can be a very slippery slope. Once you start down that path, it can be hard to stay in control or recover. I think I can see how blame could bring out some problems that might not ordinarily come up, but I also think some emotional damage can be done. And it can degenerate into a power/control thing between people. It's happened to me, and it looks like it's happened to others in this thread. Maybe there's a way to blame the other person in a constructive way, but I don't know how to do it. Bottom line is each person has to make their own decision on what should be done and potential consequences. Hope people here understand what I'm trying to say. Peace :-)
Logged

"It's not what you do, but how you do it."

"The Truth in Ballroom Dance is found in the Basic steps."

A.S.
ttd
Open Bronze
*
Posts: 642


« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2009, 09:13:33 PM »

if the couple don’t blame each other and never argue, I will not teach them.

Do you mind explaining why? What if they discovered their own perfect way to discuss problems without arguing? That, IMO, would be an achievement in itself.

In my personal situation, I think if in the beginning my husband was able to avoid blaming me and arguing, I would be less inclined to give him a taste of his own medicine (that is something I have never been able to resit when an opportunity presents itself, in general, not just in dancing) when the tables turned and I became a better dancer.

I don't really regret that we don't dance together anymore, I just accepted it and moved on. But still, I think it is worth analyzing why our dance partnership did not work out.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 14 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!