Breathing

[skipper]

I was taught that all breathing in ballroom dancing is through the ribcage and that you breathe through the back in Latin.

Does that mean breathe one way in every day life and "switch" when dancing???
wow.  does that require sugery?

Indeed. I haven't heard of anybody having sugery. I have heard that people have to totally relearn to breathe for dancing.

[samina]

Also, again as I understand it, rib-cage breathing in ballroom is important to maintain the core.  If you use your diaphragm and stomach you have to relax the abdominal muscles that are busy maintain the core.

There must be some different schools of thought about the level of engagement required for the stomach muscles, as I recall this point coming up a while back on DF, with different views. However it originates, my primary instructor and his Blackpool finalist coach, whose instruction I've also received, teach minimal engagement of the abs. They are as soft and relaxed as possible, and I've even heard the proclamation, "If they are engaged firmly, you cannot dance." But I know that others are taught to dance with taut abs, which I can only imagine must be restrictive for both movement and breathing.

One of the Breathplay techniques utilizes constriction of the muscles at the base of the perineum on the out-breath to draw the spine long, while also drawing the navel to the spine, and I use that all the time to help coordinate my movement with my breath, but the action is fluid rather than fixed.

The primary paradigm in Breathplay is that the active breath is on the *out*breath, which is the opposite of how we are socialized, but it's so powerful to experiment with. If you need more oxygen, you breathe *out* with greater power, rather than in. Flips the paradigm for everything.

I love Breathplay techniques, I use them ALL the time, not just to organize movement but also to clear my head, energize myself, calm myself, and even as part of visualization meditations. I'm a total Breathplay-heads. Very grateful for having been introduced to it...

[samina]

Whoops...attempted to quote elise above, but didn't work right on my Blackberry!

[elisedance]

Whoops...attempted to quote elise above, but didn't work right on my Blackberry!

Perhaps I smote you for taking my words in vanity!! 
Or something

I like thje breathing out idea - have to suggest that to DP who has had some issues with forgetting to breathe at all!

[QPO]

have yet to have any issues with breathing during dancing, I have seen people get the stich or out of breath etc. but learning a porpoer technquie to improve our dancing would be great....

[elisedance]

Its a good thing to learn because I've found that as you get more competetive the demands on your body can get greater (sure, ideal dancing is no effort but sometimes its not ideal).

[QPO]

the one thing I miss from coaches our way it the variety of training, there is no training schedule given and you just do your own thing. I think that breathing technique plus other fundamentals should be encouraged as a warm up and used during training session.

[cornutt]

They are as soft and relaxed as possible, and I've even heard the proclamation, "If they are engaged firmly, you cannot dance." But I know that others are taught to dance with taut abs, which I can only imagine must be restrictive for both movement and breathing.

I've noticed this... now, when you're my age, you can't go around in public with totally relaxed abs  , but beyond a certain point, engaging the abs works counter to core flexibility.  In my case, it restricts my ability to rotate my torso (which is tight enough as it is).  So I try to think of it more as just maintaining lift and a good tone all the way up and down the front of my torso.  

Some years ago I had some singing lessons.  They teach you to really breathe from the diaphragm, in order to maximize air volume in your lungs.  I fell into the habit of breathing that way in everyday activities, and it made my ab muscles go totally slack.  When I started dancing I had to re-learn breathing.  

[GreenEyes26]

Some years ago I had some singing lessons.  They teach you to really breathe from the diaphragm, in order to maximize air volume in your lungs.  I fell into the habit of breathing that way in everyday activities, and it made my ab muscles go totally slack.  When I started dancing I had to re-learn breathing.  

Great. I used to take voice lessons....so I guess that means I'm going to have to learn to breathe differently, too. 

[GreenEyes26]

One of the Breathplay techniques utilizes constriction of the muscles at the base of the perineum on the out-breath to draw the spine long, while also drawing the navel to the spine, and I use that all the time to help coordinate my movement with my breath, but the action is fluid rather than fixed.

This is really interesting. Several months ago, I made some realizations about exhaling. My only knowledge of it at the time was that it was important in yoga classes and that it helped to synch it with dancing. After a particular encounter with someone from my past, though, I realized there was a connection between an emotional/mental state and my physical being associated with exhaling. I wrote a letter to a friend of mine about it, but unfortunately it never made it out of the drafts folder. I've been meaning to build on it and incorporate dancing. It's exciting to discover that I was on the right track with my thinking, but it's also a *bit* of a let-down to know that it's been figured out (and published) already. C'est la vie Nevertheless -- glad to have found this thread, and thanks for the reference to Breath Play. I'll have to read it!

[elisedance]

Some years ago I had some singing lessons.  They teach you to really breathe from the diaphragm, in order to maximize air volume in your lungs.  I fell into the habit of breathing that way in everyday activities, and it made my ab muscles go totally slack.  When I started dancing I had to re-learn breathing.   

Great. I used to take voice lessons....so I guess that means I'm going to have to learn to breathe differently, too. 

I'm not sure what the right answer is here.  I've learned that it is important to have a strong core - what you do not want is to bend from the waist and ave your belly sticking out (bad for your back too). Thus core (abdominal muscle) tonus is important. Also, you use your core everytime you make a body rotation.  OTOH I think you can still breathe with your diaphragm without also relaxing the abdomen as a singer or wind instrument player is trained.  The question in my mind is what is the right division between diaphragmatic and rib-cage breathing for a dancer?

[samina]

i'm still growing in my understanding & respect for the outbreath and all it does. it's just so powerful. no more "take a deep breath in" in my vocabulary... it's always about how profoundly i can narrow my exhale, so narrow it deeply activates my abs, draws everything in around the base of my spine, sends energy up through my spine and even seems to compel me to align my jaw & neck differently so the energy can "shoot" out the top of my head... powerful stuff.

[elisedance]

i'm still growing in my understanding & respect for the outbreath and all it does. it's just so powerful. no more "take a deep breath in" in my vocabulary... it's always about how profoundly i can narrow my exhale, so narrow it deeply activates my abs, draws everything in around the base of my spine, sends energy up through my spine and even seems to compel me to align my jaw & neck differently so the energy can "shoot" out the top of my head... powerful stuff.

Interesting - it surely is more than making space for an inbreath (even if that is the most important function ) .  I learned the way to start a music solo is to first breathe out and then begin.  The natural instinct is to take a deep breath and start but that makes you unsteady and liable to hit the note unsurely and too hard.  Breathing out seems to centre you and make you more careful.

Come to think of it isn't that what karate experts do too?

[samina]

i don't know about karate experts... but i bet there must be martial artists, especial qigong masters, who use the power of the outbreath. i agree with you, it's more than just about making room for the inbreath. you can actually get such a workout from working the outbreath while you walk... you can quickly take yourself beyond your energetic or cardio limits, whatever they are for you, but intensifying the outbreath and powerfully, simultaneously "narrowing" and "lengthening" that function.

and kundalini yoga has many "kriya" or breathing exercises that involve "pumping" the lower abdomen at the same time that the breath is exhaled as powerfully & deeply as you can. it's believed to activate the kundalini and domino-effect through the human mind-body system.

i'm persuaded that's true.