'Looking strong'

[elisedance]

well that would be the goal but for some there has to be an illusion......like acting...we are sold the experience.....especially when you are not romantically linked.

I don't think thats what SG meant though...

[QPO]

well that would be the goal but for some there has to be an illusion......like acting...we are sold the experience.....especially when you are not romantically linked.

I don't think thats what SG meant though...

no but I was commenting on your comment, that it could be a lie

[Some guy]

Ah, but the actions they do are very different from the illusion they create.  Dance as two, and you look like one.  

so what you seem to be saying is that truly great dancing has to be a lie?

Okay, so I'm not sure about what "truly great dancing" is because I'm not there yet.   

However, from what I've experienced, the connections and the interaction becomes much more real and dynamic when you don't worry about it. 

[elisedance]

I think truly great dancing is something we all sense individually.  And its the same as in any art, a mixture of technique, knowldege and 'artistry'.  To say that great dancing can be achieved by the first two alone is (IMO) to reduce partner dancing from an art form and make it only a performance.  it is like saying that one could be picasso if one only had his amazing technical training (he started as a litteral artist) and knowledge.  I don't think anyone would claim that that was the case.

The only ballroom dancers that spring to mind as tue artists to me are william pino & alessandra bucciarelli.  I know they are also great body-school dancers but I see that as the technical and (part of) the knowledge underpinnings to an artistic expression that elevates them above others with identical training and even superiour knowledge. 

Again, IMO one can become a wonderful dancer by following the best of training - but to be artistic ballroom dancers there must be a level of communication between the dancers and the viewers AND between themselves that transcends all the training on earth.

[drj]

I think truly great dancing is something we all sense individually.  <snip>

The only ballroom dancers that spring to mind as true artists to me are william pino & alessandra bucciarelli.  I know they are also great body-school dancers but I see that as the technical and (part of) the knowledge underpinnings to an artistic expression that elevates them above others with identical training and even superior knowledge. 

Again, IMO one can become a wonderful dancer by following the best of training - but to be artistic ballroom dancers there must be a level of communication between the dancers and the viewers AND between themselves that transcends all the training on earth.

Time for a "like" button or an applause smiley

[elisedance]

thanks drj ... virtual emoticon much appreciated

[samina]

this thread has been on my mind lately.

what i've found so far in my progression from a weak dancer to a much stronger one is that my "strength" is related to how fully i inhabit my body. this means, without sense of a self-consciousness as in "what will others think" or "gee, i don't know if i'm doing it right", and instead with a strong sense of "i am here", "this feels right", and radically increased physical sensation of pleasure in my body. the physical sensation appears to be the embodiment of one's awareness from the inside-out, whereas i come from a very self-conscious "outside-in" place when it comes to my body.

when i'm practicing dance with strength, or in my yoga practice, the sensation is one of all-encompassing "i am here..." radiating from the core of my body-being outwards, and my mind is still. and that translates into the partner dancing experience as just being able to be in a strong, connected shared movement with my partner, without being aware of these things. the "being present" aspect which i may be aware of in practice is so strong and embodied that it just falls away without concern.

my mind used to be filled with so many thoughts of frustration and self-questioning, whether subtle or intense, and i just couldn't feel physically comfortable. i could never just settle into my body and forget. there were physical limitations i needed to address in order to feel more comfortable within it (hello rolfing, gyro, resistance flexibility training, and yoga...), and tho there are still limitations, much less than before, so now i can feel more comfortable in my body and just forget about it.

when i first came to dancing and training in standard and latin, i was (and am) physically very strong, but i was so weak as a dancer. i could probably take down any woman i know, and quite a few men ( ), but crikey was i a weakling on the dance floor. i don't feel this is remotely the case, now. i'd have to get a comparison report from someone who knew me then as far as how i "look" on the floor now... but i do suspect i would appear radically more grounded, more relaxed, more present, more connected, more responsive, and more musical. all just from making the changes i've described.

psh...as if it were so easy. i've still got so very far to go...

[Some guy]

Right on Samina.  I've been taught and experiencing nearly everything you described within the past three months or so.  It started off really small and then it got a lot bigger (or I thought).  Consequently, this result is easily measurable and quantifiable in a gym.  So it's not just a "feeling", the strength is very real, but it's the approach and use of the strength that is different.  Earlier I had to move the weights, working from the outside in.  Soreness, fatigue, callouses, those were just a few by-products of working from the outside in, not to mention requiring up to a week of r&r before hitting the gym again.   When working from the inside out, it's almost as if the weights move by themselves.  The weights in most cases doubled, the intensity doubled (reps per minute), no soreness, no fatigue, no callouses.  It feels as if you aren't using your muscles at all.  Very surreal.  On a dance floor it translates to a combined energy in the partnership where it's hard to say who's leading and who's following and each member of the partnership feels equally empowered to do as they please. 

I thought I had this down until I watched the energy at Embassy.  Let's just say that energy-wise, mine was the equivalent of laundry static compared to their mother-ship tractor beam-level of energy.  The person that impressed me the most was Skufca.       

[Some guy]

Samina, looks like you and I are in sync again!  This has been my focus for the past few months and the biggest thing on my mind.  It all started with my coach asking me how "I" wanted to dance.  Not how others have taught me how to dance.  It was a very big "I am" moment for me.  It was the first time I had truly inhabited my body while dancing.  Not being apologetic for being in it and trying to mold it into shapes and figures that others had told me I should do.  Of course, my coach had to be there to show me and make me feel perfectly safe to do it, to venture away from everything I had been told to do and do what I wanted to do.  I don't know if I would've had the guts to do that myself.  

[elisedance]

Can't say I'm there yet.but I can surely understand what you two are on about

[dlgodud]

I agree with BLOD, if the partners just concentrate only on their jobs and not get involved with their partner, it looks strong.  When couples try to please each other or help each other, it looks weak to me. 

Interesting!
I was recently requested by my teacher that I should move myself. lol. Don't wait until he moves me.  
I don't think he was trying to tell me that I cannot move myself. He always said that I could dance myself, but sometimes I hesitate for doing things that I am supposed to do or wait for my teacher finish his action (sometimes when he forgets the routine or late for the next move, it happens because he is a human as well, but most of time I don't move my A$$. hahaha)

What you wrote here kind of makes sense to me.

[Some guy]

Nice to hear!  Something else I was taught: the lady should NEVER follow the man.  Respond, yes, but never follow.  So when you respond, in effect, you have a the freedom to be yourself and express yourself.  If you try to follow, then you're limited to what the man is doing and in essence, you become only as good as your partner.  

Now if only I can master this trick.    ...as a man of course.  Not a lady.   

[samina]

Samina, looks like you and I are in sync again!  This has been my focus for the past few months and the biggest thing on my mind.  It all started with my coach asking me how "I" wanted to dance.  

LOL... I remember the first time my instructor asked me this. We were dancing waltz, I was just a few months into my "big year" of competing, and I was like...  "What on earth does he mean?" He said, "What do you want this movement to *BE*? Dance it and *show* me!" That was a big catalyst for change, and it definitely didn't show up right away but was behind so much subsequent growth, and it's exactly what you're describing, exactly what I've been feeling as so different now.

It's amazing how "spiritual" this stuff is, too, because if it's self-conscious with any kind of "trying to do-ness" of the ego, it resonates false and can have either a weakness or a forced over-largeness to it, while I've found that it's the letting go of ego and self-consciousness that makes it paradoxically quieter and stronger. "I am here", 'This is me", "This is it", and quietude in motion feels like what is going on when it's "working" with inner power and natural forces. And all of that happens in the moment, in the Now, without real "thought".

It was a very big "I am" moment for me.  

"I am" moments are pretty effin' powerful moments, aren't they.

Am so happy for you, SG. What a great year you've had... *hug*

[elisedance]

Nice to hear!  Something else I was taught: the lady should NEVER follow the man.  Respond, yes, but never follow.  So when you respond, in effect, you have a the freedom to be yourself and express yourself.  If you try to follow, then you're limited to what the man is doing and in essence, you become only as good as your partner. 

Now if only I can master this trick.    ...as a man of course.  Not a lady.   

At our stage this does not seem to jibe - I've found that our dancing has improved immesurably after I've started to focus on following as my number one goal.  The reason is that it has empowered DP and he no longer has to worry that I'm going to go off in a different direction.

I do agree though that this is probably an interim stage.  Once we have this down pat I will be excersizing more independence again - but this needs changes in us both, him for the confidence and the responsitility of leading and me to be tuned into what I HAVE to follow and what I dont.  To say that the woman does not have to follow is, I think, to contradict almost everything that is on this forum previously..... (body school too)

[Some guy]

To say that the woman does not have to follow is, I think, to contradict almost everything that is on this forum previously..... (body school too)

You might be surprised.