partnerdanceonline.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 20, 2014, 07:24:45 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
A lot of people are visiting Smiley Smiley
Undecided Undecided but not many are posting....
please say hi Cheesy
116526 Posts in 1858 Topics by 223 Members
Latest Member: dancewithmetoronto
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  partnerdanceonline.com
|-+  Partner Dancing
| |-+  Partner Dances
| | |-+  Ballroom dance -advanced (Moderators: Rugby, cornutt, ZPomeroy)
| | | |-+  Dancing From "Head" To Toe
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Print
Author Topic: Dancing From "Head" To Toe  (Read 4156 times)
TangoDancer
Open Bronze
*
Posts: 736



« on: April 13, 2010, 05:29:07 AM »

Today, I was working Fox with a fairly good dancer who has issues with her topline, especially her head. Working with it, I told her that one of my pet peeves in smooth/standard is how many ladies move their heads unncessarily, constantly, and all over the place. She asked to show me a video of what she wants to look like, and, to my surprise, it was a video that I recognized from PDO. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVq9MSYuopk&feature=related

I told her that, though I like this couple, and the Fox, I felt that it was too fast, and that Allessia needed to keep her head still; and, when it was time to move it, that she should roll it more over, and from, her spine rather than using her meck muscles to turn it back/forth. We have discussed topline here often, but never specifically the importance of, placements of, executions of the head.

Thoughts?
Logged

The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
QPO
reg mods
Continental Champion
****
Posts: 20848


Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2010, 08:31:00 AM »

yes I struggle to make my fluid. I find that I turn my head to early or late...having said that V has change his leads this week holding himself stronger and this does give me something to work with and I found that as you say then it comes from the spine rather than the neck which what I have been doing. Undecided
Logged

Dance is a delicate balance between perfection and beauty.  ~Author Unknown
Dance Forum
Lioness
Open Gold
***
Posts: 4322



WWW
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2010, 08:36:11 AM »

Well, my head's in the wrong place to start with. I figure as soon as I correct that, I can start moving it. Now I don't dare move it for fear I'll put it back in the wrong place.
Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35042


ee


« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2010, 08:36:51 AM »

Today, I was working Fox with a fairly good dancer who has issues with her topline, especially her head. Working with it, I told her that one of my pet peeves in smooth/standard is how many ladies move their heads unncessarily, constantly, and all over the place. She asked to show me a video of what she wants to look like, and, to my surprise, it was a video that I recognized from PDO. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVq9MSYuopk&feature=related

I told her that, though I like this couple, and the Fox, I felt that it was too fast, and that Allessia needed to keep her head still; and, when it was time to move it, that she should roll it more over, and from, her spine rather than using her meck muscles to turn it back/forth. We have discussed topline here often, but never specifically the importance of, placements of, executions of the head.

Thoughts?

fantastic - I never noticed that after watching this one several times - I think the movement is very smooth, if a bit constrained.  You are absolutely right of course, and you can see it in the first minute or so - hesitant non- committed head actions.  I am guessing that they are not used to dancing on such an odd shaped floor.  

I suspected that her hesitance was due to unclear leads from massimo and that it was unique to this tape.  So, I looked up another one - this time a showcase on a full floor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZW-cX1Q0oA&feature=related
e.g. 1'33" but there are a lot of examples.
but she does exactly the same thing so I can't blame Massimo - if the leads are not clear the rule of thumb is leave your head where it is - else it looks weak.

I know that Mirko and Alessia have a DVD on 'head weight' - I actually have it but have not looked yet.  Maybe that has some insights...
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
ZPomeroy
Moderator
Intermediate Silver
****
Posts: 1464


Victoria, Australia


« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2010, 08:50:08 AM »

It is very strange that we have not talked about the head as much as other aspects of technique, in my opinion and i'm sure this is shared by others, the head is one of, if not the most important part of the body. The head, being the heaviest part of the body, needs to be counterbalancing the push forward - the further you extend your connection forward to eachother, the further the move backwards. It is interesting that you should name this thread "head" to toe, as i seem to think of it in the opposite manner, from toe to head. Every body change, arm movement, or even just taking up hold, for me starts from my feet. In my opinion any action we do is a whole body experience.

Zac
« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 09:01:57 AM by ZPomeroy » Logged

Dance is poetry written for the feet, read by the heart, and destined for the soul.
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35042


ee


« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2010, 09:09:05 AM »

I think I understood TDs point - the head can actually lead the toes - for example in a spinning action: the further out I put my head, the greater the centrifugal force and the slower our legs have to go (look at a ballerina doing spins and then putting her arms out).
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
QPO
reg mods
Continental Champion
****
Posts: 20848


Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2010, 09:10:40 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKO4I2eA_as&feature=related

found this on you tube. but it does not have it all I have yet to find the next piece of it.
Logged

Dance is a delicate balance between perfection and beauty.  ~Author Unknown
Dance Forum
TangoDancer
Open Bronze
*
Posts: 736



« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2010, 01:01:37 AM »

Interesting that I like this square school video. I am going to be very unpopular here, but... my thoughts.....

Disclaimer: I like their dancing. In the first part of the video, though I love the stillness of her head (just remaining in position w/ no unnecessary flopping back/forth), she is still using the neck to move the head when she turns it. The reason that she is doing this is because she is dancing in that bent beck faux posture position that, though still popular, thank God is waning for the sake of better tech. This position does not allow her to turn the head on the spine b/c the spine is removed from its natural position. Also, one might notice that she often turns the head before the extension of the movement is completed... another result of the overstated posture.

I liked her head work in the tango portion, but tango lends itself to a easier head movement. The best part of the video is the didactic at about 5:30. Here, it is easy to see the concept of head on spine, and how/when it should move.
Logged

The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
TangoDancer
Open Bronze
*
Posts: 736



« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2010, 01:09:24 AM »

It is interesting that you should name this thread "head" to toe, as i seem to think of it in the opposite manner, from toe to head. Every body change, arm movement, or even just taking up hold, for me starts from my feet. Zac

Yeah. I did that for 3 reasons. 1- I thought that it was cool.  Cool  2- I wanted to discuss the head in particular. 3- Moreover, I agree w/ you that the dance begins at the floor. However, when preparing to dance, unlike many, I guess, I do not place the feet, and stretch up from there. I pull up from the head, as if being pulled by a ring at the top of the crown, and allow the body to hang w/ the feet as lightly on the floor as possible. I support the core/posture by the adductors (inside of the knees/thighs), maintaining as high of a hanging (I know, a gruesome visual  Huh ), as possible.
Logged

The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35042


ee


« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2010, 05:57:10 AM »

It is interesting that you should name this thread "head" to toe, as i seem to think of it in the opposite manner, from toe to head. Every body change, arm movement, or even just taking up hold, for me starts from my feet. Zac

Yeah. I did that for 3 reasons. 1- I thought that it was cool.  Cool  2- I wanted to discuss the head in particular. 3- Moreover, I agree w/ you that the dance begins at the floor. However, when preparing to dance, unlike many, I guess, I do not place the feet, and stretch up from there. I pull up from the head, as if being pulled by a ring at the top of the crown, and allow the body to hang w/ the feet as lightly on the floor as possible. I support the core/posture by the adductors (inside of the knees/thighs), maintaining as high of a hanging (I know, a gruesome visual  Huh ), as possible.
this would have to be the first horror movie that I like Cheesy  That is how I feel dancing too - both aspects.  Perhaps the overview is that the body acts (to simplify of course) in two halves - from the waist down it is concerned with floor contact, power, movement and direction but from the thighs up (yes, there is an overlap) its primary concern is with shape and expression.  Notably movement and rotation involve everything.
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
catsmeow
Bronze
*
Posts: 339


« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2010, 11:21:25 PM »

TD: I am glad you said you "felt" the foxtrot was too fast. May I ask what you would suggest to make it slower looking. I liked his extensions on the quicks. 
Logged
catsmeow
Bronze
*
Posts: 339


« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2010, 11:24:13 PM »

He is also quick looking on his "threes"  when executing the rumba interludes. I really liked this video.
Logged
TangoDancer
Open Bronze
*
Posts: 736



« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2010, 02:22:54 PM »

TD: I am glad you said you "felt" the foxtrot was too fast. May I ask what you would suggest to make it slower looking. I liked his extensions on the quicks. 

IMO, SF is exactly that... Slow Fox. This isn't to say that thre are not quick movements/moments in it. Of course, there are. Yet, the dance should exude a more melifluous movement... to me. One of my big things in dance, and in teaching, is to find the movement and the beauty within the stillness. SF lends itself to this more than all others. There is a way to dance in the silence of the motion that allows both; to breathe, to fully extending the last movement before giving birth to the next. These movements/moments in between the steps are the most precious parts of the dance. I do not see that in this video. What I see is; good dancing, nice lines, and good tech skills with little regard for slows/quicks/beats/bars (note the intentional omission of timing in that list). perhaps, this is why there is another thread on musicality.  Undecided   Wink
Logged

The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
drj
Bronze
*
Posts: 334



« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2010, 07:31:57 PM »


I told her that, though I like this couple, and the Fox, I felt that it was too fast, and that Allessia needed to keep her head still; and, when it was time to move it, that she should roll it more over, and from, her spine rather than using her meck muscles to turn it back/forth. We have discussed topline here often, but never specifically the importance of, placements of, executions of the head.

Thoughts?

Disclaimer: I'm still a newbie at this kind of dancing. But just a couple of thoughts: My instructor has control of my spine, and therefore of my head. If he moves my body weight -- or leads me to move it -- and changes the direction of my head, then I move my head. If not, not -- or at least, that's my goal. How can a follow just decide to move her head? Head motion is led, IME.
Logged

ancora imparo
TangoDancer
Open Bronze
*
Posts: 736



« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2010, 01:45:59 AM »

Disclaimer: I'm still a newbie at this kind of dancing. But just a couple of thoughts: My instructor has control of my spine, and therefore of my head. If he moves my body weight -- or leads me to move it -- and changes the direction of my head, then I move my head. If not, not -- or at least, that's my goal. How can a follow just decide to move her head? Head motion is led, IME.

Hmm. Head motion can be led, but need not be led directly by the man. More often, it is led by the movement/momentum. I am not certain of what you mean by the lead has control of your spine. Your spinal position is a result of your vertical/horizontal balance which you had better have control of on your own  Smiley Expound on this, if you like, yes?
Logged

The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.12 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!