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Author Topic: An organization for pro/AM competitors? If so, what would it do?  (Read 4768 times)
MrsMoose
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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2010, 08:06:30 PM »

It's not just about getting money back, etc.

Perhaps it would just keep the dishonest ones from being dishonests if there was a watchdog so to speak.

An organization who looks out for the Ams, it's not just about complaining or running to, but for anyone who wants info on the Am part of the Pro/Am.

|Internet is great but not everyone googles. And not everyone knows the right questions to ask when starting out.

I think that even a reliable studio, an honest one would want to register, like on the internet where businesses show they have been certified, verified, etc Or businesses are rated by the BBB??? A studio could be rated and that would be good publicity for them too.

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elisedance
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« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2010, 07:01:42 AM »

No dance organizations represent the dancers against their studios, comp organizers or teachers - that would be a Union Cheesy  Its for obvious reasons - that they would immediately get embroiled in law suits and the like.  However, they can offer 'Good Practise' advice that the dancers can read and then make their own, informed, minds up about.

The main force against such an organization I suspect, would be the chain studios that really don't want their customers to be informed (not all, but its not uncommon).
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ttd
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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2010, 09:12:29 AM »

I think that even a reliable studio, an honest one would want to register, like on the internet where businesses show they have been certified, verified, etc Or businesses are rated by the BBB??? A studio could be rated and that would be good publicity for them too.

Wouldn't a studio, as a business, be under local BBB umbrella, so to speak? BBB logs complaints against businesses, I think it rates them, too, but I don't remember. I didn't need to use them for a while, but back when we were relocating, I checked BBB at both locales and chose the moving company whose local reps did not have unresolved complaints against them. It's different with independent teachers, I suppose, because they don't have to get a local business license in order to teach. But since there is absolutely nothing that would make them register anywhere unless they want to compete at the events ran by that organization, why would they even want to register with some third-party organization? The way I see it, this kind of watchdog organization is something that duplicates the information, won't be useful to new dancers unless they know about it (which means they are googling before starting to dance and will probably find the information anyway on sites like these and similar forums), wouldn't be useful to experienced dancers, because they already know the ropes, has the potential to increase costs for individuals (in form of registration fees, paid by the am dancers themselves or passed on by studios and teachers to their clients, as all businesses do). Plus it still sounds like something aimed at protecting people from making bad choices, which they can do anyway. For example, we have a dude here who teaches group classes at local rec center. He is horrible, when he comes to parties, women hide in the bathroom to avoid dancing with him. He is not registered with any organization because he does not compete anywhere. Yet he has some students at his group classes and they don't really care about his quality as a teacher, they're pretty much all retirees, out to have some fun at budget rates. Should they be protected from a clearly poor choice (IMO) they made? Or maybe they know that there are better options, but a crappy rec center class is all they can afford?


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samina
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« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2010, 11:35:13 AM »

as long as it's not required and there are no drawbacks to *not* being a member of such an organization... meh, why not. i just don't want the obligation or any interference or "helpful standardization". let the common free market reign, i say.
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ttd
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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2010, 12:00:50 PM »

as long as it's not required and there are no drawbacks to *not* being a member of such an organization... meh, why not. i just don't want the obligation or any interference or "helpful standardization". let the common free market reign, i say.
"Helpful standardization" is like "one size fits all" (does it, really?). In a way, what I like about current situation is that everyone is free to choose their own path in dancing, and everyone can figure out for themselves what works for them. Some people like bells and whistles which come with a studio lesson, some people would pay higher hourly rates a more experienced teacher would charge, some people would be OK with someone less experienced but cheaper. In the end everyone decides what is fair to them. So why organize?
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MusicChica
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« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2010, 04:58:55 PM »

Well, and IMO, not only do we have resources like the BBB and Google-able forums with good information easily available, it just seems to me like an organization wouldn't really benefit the greater whole.  Sure, there are unethical "pros" and studios in the dance world, but aren't there unethical people and businesses in every industry?  And for every crap teacher that hides costs, teaches the wrong things, and overcharges, there's another one that's at least semi-well-trained, honest, and up-front about everything.  Seems like an organization would unfairly punish all of the good teachers out there (like my pro) while not really doing much to eradicate the problems with the bad ones.

Just my $0.02.
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MrsMoose
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« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2010, 05:05:38 PM »

I guess what I'd like to see is not an organization when reading everyones replies but more just a place that gathers information.

Not necessarily a watchdog/police but someone who just gathers the info and then makes it availalbe to Ams.

What I'd like is hard to explain. But I agree with free market capitalism.  
I do have a question though.
We talk about BBB and business licence wouldn't that just be the studio though? What about someone who rents floor space, teachs and competes. They might be registered or licensed to compete and teach but (this is a queestion not a statement) does that mean they are reliable/fair/etc.

About the bad choice for the rec center guy. I actually went to a woman for my first offical dance lesson. I didn't want to pay alot, I had no clue about comps. I was looking just for some fun and exercise.  Then DH came with me for 1 hour a week. She made it fun for him or he would have left. She was fairly cheap compared to "good" lessons. She rented space at different places never really knew where she will be for your lesson. She had her niche, for people who wanted a wedding dance inexpensively taught". In fact I think she served a good purpose IMO. Even though she didn't teach properly, invented some steps I think as no other teacher knows what some are, she gave a lot of pleasure toa good number of people and opened them up to the world of dance in her own way.
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MrsMoose
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« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2010, 05:09:45 PM »

I should add with that organiztion it could serve as a gathering of local dance studios too.

Surprisigly, I know how to google, I am very computer savvy, but when I was looking for a new dance studio in my area, the only thing I came up with easily was the "chain".

No matter how hard I tried I had trouble finding an independent studio.   


But the person who said how would the Ams know it's there is a good point.  If I didn't know it existed how could I even google it, so what I really want is probably just not feasible .  |Can I change my opinon??
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elisedance
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« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2010, 06:19:05 PM »

Perhaps whats really necessary in the dance world is a professional organization that sets standards and monitors the teachers/judges.  Plumbers have to be credited why not dance teachers?

I'm not saying creditation should be essential but then at least you would have something to rely on - and an agency that you could go to for information/complaint.  And no, IMO a better business organization does not cut it - they do not, and can not, have a clue what is reqjuired for dance instruction.
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ttd
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« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2010, 08:15:01 PM »

And that already exists, at least as far as actual dance skills go. Teachers can take professional exams and get certified by ISTD, for example.
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elisedance
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« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2010, 08:23:01 AM »

And that already exists, at least as far as actual dance skills go. Teachers can take professional exams and get certified by ISTD, for example.

Of course it exists - but it has no muscle with respect to teaching.  You can't complain about a teacher to the pro-organization. Its totaly hands off and they do not set any standards for pro-am teaching/competing.  

Imagine the same thing with a tennis or golf coach.  Their organizations are far more proactive and keep a standard in the game.  Sure, you can go to an independent coach (free market) but you can at least to choose to go to a professionally certified teacher.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 08:26:34 AM by elisedance » Logged

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samina
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« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2010, 09:03:24 AM »

as long as it's not required and there are no drawbacks to *not* being a member of such an organization... meh, why not. i just don't want the obligation or any interference or "helpful standardization". let the common free market reign, i say.
"Helpful standardization" is like "one size fits all" (does it, really?). In a way, what I like about current situation is that everyone is free to choose their own path in dancing, and everyone can figure out for themselves what works for them. Some people like bells and whistles which come with a studio lesson, some people would pay higher hourly rates a more experienced teacher would charge, some people would be OK with someone less experienced but cheaper. In the end everyone decides what is fair to them. So why organize?
i agree. although i wouldn't want to stand in the way of those who would find value in organization. but i don't see that i need an organization to protect my interests, and am not interested in giving up my freedom of personal choice for such a thing.

i still stand behind "buyer beware" in all things... and that there is a great blessing in the freedom to make that call personally in the way that suits each individual. including the engagement with those who are on the more unscrupulous side of things.
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elisedance
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« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2010, 11:27:20 AM »

as long as it's not required and there are no drawbacks to *not* being a member of such an organization... meh, why not. i just don't want the obligation or any interference or "helpful standardization". let the common free market reign, i say.
"Helpful standardization" is like "one size fits all" (does it, really?). In a way, what I like about current situation is that everyone is free to choose their own path in dancing, and everyone can figure out for themselves what works for them. Some people like bells and whistles which come with a studio lesson, some people would pay higher hourly rates a more experienced teacher would charge, some people would be OK with someone less experienced but cheaper. In the end everyone decides what is fair to them. So why organize?
i agree. although i wouldn't want to stand in the way of those who would find value in organization. but i don't see that i need an organization to protect my interests, and am not interested in giving up my freedom of personal choice for such a thing.

i still stand behind "buyer beware" in all things... and that there is a great blessing in the freedom to make that call personally in the way that suits each individual. including the engagement with those who are on the more unscrupulous side of things.
I wonder how the old lady I know of who signed a lifetime contract with a notorious unscrupulous pro would think of this.  And this pro gets his credibility by mixing freely with all the other professional dance teachers (some of whom are equally disgusted but can do nothing about him).
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
elisedance
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« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2010, 11:31:37 AM »

as long as it's not required and there are no drawbacks to *not* being a member of such an organization... meh, why not. i just don't want the obligation or any interference or "helpful standardization". let the common free market reign, i say.
"Helpful standardization" is like "one size fits all" (does it, really?). In a way, what I like about current situation is that everyone is free to choose their own path in dancing, and everyone can figure out for themselves what works for them. Some people like bells and whistles which come with a studio lesson, some people would pay higher hourly rates a more experienced teacher would charge, some people would be OK with someone less experienced but cheaper. In the end everyone decides what is fair to them. So why organize?
i agree. although i wouldn't want to stand in the way of those who would find value in organization. but i don't see that i need an organization to protect my interests, and am not interested in giving up my freedom of personal choice for such a thing.

i still stand behind "buyer beware" in all things... and that there is a great blessing in the freedom to make that call personally in the way that suits each individual. including the engagement with those who are on the more unscrupulous side of things.

BTW: would you recommend the same principle for, say, a surgeon or a lawyer?
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
ttd
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« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2010, 01:04:34 PM »

as long as it's not required and there are no drawbacks to *not* being a member of such an organization... meh, why not. i just don't want the obligation or any interference or "helpful standardization". let the common free market reign, i say.
"Helpful standardization" is like "one size fits all" (does it, really?). In a way, what I like about current situation is that everyone is free to choose their own path in dancing, and everyone can figure out for themselves what works for them. Some people like bells and whistles which come with a studio lesson, some people would pay higher hourly rates a more experienced teacher would charge, some people would be OK with someone less experienced but cheaper. In the end everyone decides what is fair to them. So why organize?
i agree. although i wouldn't want to stand in the way of those who would find value in organization. but i don't see that i need an organization to protect my interests, and am not interested in giving up my freedom of personal choice for such a thing.

i still stand behind "buyer beware" in all things... and that there is a great blessing in the freedom to make that call personally in the way that suits each individual. including the engagement with those who are on the more unscrupulous side of things.
I wonder how the old lady I know of who signed a lifetime contract with a notorious unscrupulous pro would think of this.  And this pro gets his credibility by mixing freely with all the other professional dance teachers (some of whom are equally disgusted but can do nothing about him).
Frankly, I don't really care. Nobody held a gun to her head while she was signing it (although depending on where she is, this kind of contract may be illegal). And that's yet another case in point that people need to think before they make their decisions, and realize that whatever they decide they have to live with the consequences of it, and not expect some sort of organization to step in and bail them out.
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