maintaining frame and shape

[TangoDancer]

.....and remember a fixed frame is an illusion. Learn to see past the illusion so you can see, feel and understand how flexible and giving the frame actually is.

But what should be your mind set?  I mean a collapsed frame can happen very easily - often when you have a difficult step - so what do you think of to keep the frame open while allowing it to breathe?

I hate the term "frame" for this very reason. It instills an image of something stiff and rigid. To answer your question, 1- set the frame by completely lowering/relaxing the trapezius muscles, and widening the lats (back). Feel as though someone is pulling the elbows outward and parallel to the floor. I know that you know this already; bear with me. What this does, in answer to your question, though, is it helps to set the frame in a uncollapsable position. But wait! There's more! Here's the most important, and most forgotten part of being able to maintain. Keep the head up and over the spine. When the head moves forward of the spine, even a wee bit, it softens the shoulders which allow the topline to collapse.

The other point, relative to flexibility, is to never move this position once it is set. All breathing of the topline happens at the elbows... allowing the forearms to move horizontally from them, and/or vertically from them, while maintaining the set positions of the upper arms by the exercise above.

[elisedance]

...
The other point, relative to flexibility, is to never move this position once it is set. All breathing of the topline happens at the elbows... allowing the forearms to move horizontally from them, and/or vertically from them, while maintaining the set positions of the upper arms by the exercise above.

Ah!  This is the bit I wanted (I know the others and I'm getting better at maintaining them) but this is the key to the breathing frame ...

[elisedance]

I hate the term "frame" for this very reason. It instills an image of something stiff and rigid.

so we need a better word.  'Scaffold' has the same problem...

I can't think of one.  The problem I think is that a frame really IS the right word because it includes 'flexible frame' - its just been used too much in the 'picture frame' contrext. 

[SwingWaltz]

Speaking of frame and fexible frame, does the man set the frame and lady fills it, or does the man create the frame to suit the lady? 
I noticed some change in my frame, cause I used to dance with a tall girl, now I dance with a shorter girl. Should this be the case?

[QPO]

should this frame though offer some resistance. as tonight when we were dancing, to maintain shape you must be able to hold it and therefore not allow the other person to collapse it so there fore there must be some resistance, I struggle to find that balance. I wish I could feel it.the difference, when I dance with my tech his frame is strong and firm, when i dance with V it can be like that but not all the time. I am sure when we have worked out that balance we have won half the battle

[QPO]

Speaking of frame and fexible frame, does the man set the frame and lady fills it, or does the man create the frame to suit the lady? 
I noticed some change in my frame, cause I used to dance with a tall girl, now I dance with a shorter girl. Should this be the case?

I am sure there has to be adjustments to accommodate the differences

[elisedance]

Speaking of frame and fexible frame, does the man set the frame and lady fills it, or does the man create the frame to suit the lady? 
I noticed some change in my frame, cause I used to dance with a tall girl, now I dance with a shorter girl. Should this be the case?

Like all male-female partnerships it SHOULD be a conversation.  I am always asking DP to adjust his frame a bit so that I can do my job.  He's usually happy to accomodate me since the bigger the frame the more easy his job is during pivots and turns.  However, on occasion he will set limits - usually its because I am trying to create an illegal frame.

[skipper]

.....and remember a fixed frame is an illusion. Learn to see past the illusion so you can see, feel and understand how flexible and giving the frame actually is.

Today my eyes (or hands) were opened to the feeling of giving toward the man - on EVERY measure.  It is much more physical than I ever thought. I was sure there would be a "complaint", but there was none. SO, no complaint must mean it is ok. 

[cornutt]

I hate the term "frame" for this very reason. It instills an image of something stiff and rigid.

That's funny, but I don't think of it that way... the frame of a building is a lot more dynamic than people realize.  It can and does give where it needs to in order to respond to applied forces and remain upright.  I guess I've been spending too much time around the mechanical engineers.   

[elisedance]

I hate the term "frame" for this very reason. It instills an image of something stiff and rigid.

That's funny, but I don't think of it that way... the frame of a building is a lot more dynamic than people realize.  It can and does give where it needs to in order to respond to applied forces and remain upright.  I guess I've been spending too much time around the mechanical engineers.   

But there must be a term for the kind of frame that keeps things in propportion to each other and yet has hinged joints.  something like an 'escapement' - just can't think of the term.

[drj]

I hate the term "frame" for this very reason. It instills an image of something stiff and rigid.

so we need a better word.  'Scaffold' has the same problem...

I can't think of one.  The problem I think is that a frame really IS the right word because it includes 'flexible frame' - its just been used too much in the 'picture frame' contrext. 

Tensegrity.


   

[elisedance]

I hate the term "frame" for this very reason. It instills an image of something stiff and rigid.

so we need a better word.  'Scaffold' has the same problem...

I can't think of one.  The problem I think is that a frame really IS the right word because it includes 'flexible frame' - its just been used too much in the 'picture frame' contrext. 

Tensegrity.


   

cool
(before I look it up) is it a new or a previously owned word?

[drj]

Tensegrity.

cool
(before I look it up) is it a new or a previously owned word?

 Very much a previously owned word. R. Buckminster Fuller. This bridge in Brisbane is v. cool: but this coffee table image may be more dance-friendly: You can see how minimalist, carefully structured, balanced and connected tension and freedom work together to hold up something seemingly invisible and weightless that's actually quite a bit of mass. Doing more with less, beautifully.

Kinda like dancing standard, ain't it?

[elisedance]

I think you are onto a winner.  A PDO original   But is tensegrity every used with a frame that can move?
I'm thinking of those book cases that rotate while the shelves stay perfectly flat.  If there was a word for that....

[cornutt]

Well, after tonight's coaching, I have a new mission.  I'm out to rebuild my frame and my connection.  Yulia demonstrated something to me tonight that shocked me: I have no real strength in my lats, and as a result, I'm using my shoulders and triceps way, way more than I should. 

She showed me the right way to set the shoulders.  I need to think not of pulling them "down", but of rolling them downward and forward and then lifting my chest.  Plus maintaining some inward pressure on the circle, so my left arm in particular doesn't fly out at every opportunity.  The difference was amazing!  And after 45 minutes of that, my lats were really sore.     Must work on that.  Need to practice it while sitting at my desk.