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| | | |-+  Stupid question--rise and fall
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Author Topic: Stupid question--rise and fall  (Read 2711 times)
Peaches
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 38


« on: March 01, 2010, 08:17:14 PM »

Is (was) it just me, or is the shape of the rise and fall different between waltz and foxtrot?

I wish I could remember my algebra better, because in my mind I can see these sine-wave-esque graphs to describe what I mean, but I don't remember enough to be able to give a formula for things, lol.  But it just seems (seemed) to me like foxtrot is more of a sine wave that's been shifted upward (so all values are positive) and flattened, whereas I think of vals...er, *delete*delete*delete*delete*, waltz...is more of a negative, absolute value sine wave (I think that's what I mean.) that's also been shifted upwards so that all values are positive.

Is this making sense...shoddy algebra aside?
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elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
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Posts: 35013


ee


« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2010, 09:16:25 PM »

not exactly to me at least...  I think of foxtrot as a sine wave for sure but waltz has more wind so the waves form peaks Cheesy

But both are a bit misleading since its really more about energy than rise and fall - where to put it and, even more important where not.
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Peaches
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 38


« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2010, 09:19:47 PM »

not exactly to me at least...  I think of foxtrot as a sine wave for sure but waltz has more wind so the waves form peaks Cheesy

But both are a bit misleading since its really more about energy than rise and fall - where to put it and, even more important where not.
/*geek on*/
But if there's an absolute value function involved the graph would come to points, abeit pointing downwards.  The negative values would all end up reflected around the x-axis.  It would end up looking like a bunny hopping through the grass.  Put a negative in front of the entire thing and, IIRC, it should take that entire resultant graph and flip it upside down.  Then shift upwards.  I think.  (God, it's been a long time since I've had to think about this stuff.)

I think we're in agreement, though...
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elisedance
Administrator
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ee


« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2010, 09:47:06 PM »

not exactly to me at least...  I think of foxtrot as a sine wave for sure but waltz has more wind so the waves form peaks Cheesy

But both are a bit misleading since its really more about energy than rise and fall - where to put it and, even more important where not.
/*geek on*/
But if there's an absolute value function involved the graph would come to points, abeit pointing downwards.  The negative values would all end up reflected around the x-axis.  It would end up looking like a bunny hopping through the grass.  Put a negative in front of the entire thing and, IIRC, it should take that entire resultant graph and flip it upside down.  Then shift upwards.  I think.  (God, it's been a long time since I've had to think about this stuff.)

I think we're in agreement, though...
I trust you Smiley
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
TangoDancer
Open Bronze
*
Posts: 736



« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2010, 03:58:40 AM »

ED's post could not have been better. Yes, there is a distinct difference in the rises/lowers of both dances (though, we rarely see it in the int'l, and almost 'never' see it in the american). Her post reads that the enrgies create different timings, shapes, peaks, etc. which, of course, require, though a shared principle, different techniques.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
ZPomeroy
Moderator
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1464


Victoria, Australia


« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 04:08:49 AM »

waltz...is more of a negative, absolute value sine wave (I think that's what I mean.) that's also been shifted upwards so that all values are positive.

Is this making sense...shoddy algebra aside?

I think i understand what you mean, though you would want a reflection in the x axis so something like - lsinxl so that every cusp (at half of the period) would be the peak of the rise. Is that what you meant?

Zac
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 04:46:03 AM by ZPomeroy » Logged

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QPO
Moderator
Continental Champion
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Posts: 20824


Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2010, 07:07:27 AM »

it is not that the rise and fall is displayed differently. as in foxtrot it is mostly done with CBM more than in waltz. Or have I misinterpreted the question
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Peaches
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 38


« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2010, 11:18:04 AM »

waltz...is more of a negative, absolute value sine wave (I think that's what I mean.) that's also been shifted upwards so that all values are positive.

Is this making sense...shoddy algebra aside?

I think i understand what you mean, though you would want a reflection in the x axis so something like - lsinxl so that every cusp (at half of the period) would be the peak of the rise. Is that what you meant?

Zac
Bingo!
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elisedance
Administrator
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ee


« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2010, 11:23:18 AM »

waltz...is more of a negative, absolute value sine wave (I think that's what I mean.) that's also been shifted upwards so that all values are positive.

Is this making sense...shoddy algebra aside?

I think i understand what you mean, though you would want a reflection in the x axis so something like - lsinxl so that every cusp (at half of the period) would be the peak of the rise. Is that what you meant?

Zac
Bingo!
you could do it electronically with a diode acting as a rectifier Roll Eyes
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Peaches
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 38


« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2010, 05:02:45 PM »

"My cat's breath smells like cat food."
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QPO
Moderator
Continental Champion
****
Posts: 20824


Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2010, 08:26:40 PM »

I am feeling rather labotamised here  Roll Eyes
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cornutt
Administrator
Silver
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Posts: 1845


« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2010, 09:26:17 PM »

waltz...is more of a negative, absolute value sine wave (I think that's what I mean.) that's also been shifted upwards so that all values are positive.

Is this making sense...shoddy algebra aside?

I think i understand what you mean, though you would want a reflection in the x axis so something like - lsinxl so that every cusp (at half of the period) would be the peak of the rise. Is that what you meant?

Zac
Bingo!
you could do it electronically with a diode acting as a rectifier Roll Eyes

You have to add a bias, otherwise diode drop will clip the bottom off.   Grin
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elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
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Posts: 35013


ee


« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2010, 11:28:46 PM »

lets design a waltz cirtuit board Cheesy
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
TangoDancer
Open Bronze
*
Posts: 736



« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2010, 04:07:16 AM »

Finally got a student to understand the difference that Rise and Fall refers to the body, and Rise and Lower refer to the feet, and that both need to be addressed seperately when we dance. Light bulbs! Epiphanies! He is getting better now.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
QPO
Moderator
Continental Champion
****
Posts: 20824


Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2010, 03:24:19 AM »

Finally got a student to understand the difference that Rise and Fall refers to the body, and Rise and Lower refer to the feet, and that both need to be addressed seperately when we dance. Light bulbs! Epiphanies! He is getting better now.

I love those moments Cheesy
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