what are judges looking for?

[elisedance]

One thing I've heard what judges look for is depending on what their specialty is.
For example, judeges who are ballroom dancers and they come to judge for a latin competition, what they first look at is the posture.
So it might be possible that if a judge is a latin dancer, probably they look at something that what a latin dancer does. 

very ineresting - and I would love to have a judge's perspective on this.  However, we have one judge who is more of a latin specialist that always marks us rather hard and I've asked him why - he always says 'musicallity'.  Timing is such a key issue in latin (a lot of it is dancing together but without any contact where nothing works unless you are exactly on time - [aside: I wonder if this is really partner dancing actually ]) that I think that dominates.

[dlgodud]

One thing I've heard what judges look for is depending on what their specialty is.
For example, judeges who are ballroom dancers and they come to judge for a latin competition, what they first look at is the posture.
So it might be possible that if a judge is a latin dancer, probably they look at something that what a latin dancer does. 

very ineresting - and I would love to have a judge's perspective on this.  However, we have one judge who is more of a latin specialist that always marks us rather hard and I've asked him why - he always says 'musicallity'.  Timing is such a key issue in latin (a lot of it is dancing together but without any contact where nothing works unless you are exactly on time - [aside: I wonder if this is really partner dancing actually ]) that I think that dominates.

Exactly, musicality is very important in latin. The person who said that is actually a judge.

[QPO]

I just try to dance  my very best and not worry about the judges any more...because I know I am not going to please them all, I just have to make sure I do what  I can and improve each time I go on the floor.

[elisedance]

its the only way - but its still interesting to understand their thinking.

I mean, if you look at the UK open or blackpool, all the couples look fantastic.  What do the judges look for to distinguish them there?

[dlgodud]

For us, we might think all couples on the floor are fabulous, but for judges it would be not.

One of teachers whom I took a lesson with mentioned that a couple whom win amatuer championship in a previous year and turn to pro does not need to be found.
The will just outstanding on the floor.

[drj]

Some judges value musicality very highly. My teacher was judging a competition recently, and marked one particular pro Smooth couple very highly; particularly in their waltz, he marked them higher than any of the other judges. He saw in them the beauty of them dancing with each other -- rather than just showing off, or being flashy, or having all the moves. They had all those things, but they also had heart, and he saw that, and commented on it to me when he returned from that comp. They were the only couple he remembered from the comp. The rest were wallpaper (my term, not his). Their video from that comp is on YT. They were indeed dancing beautifully, *with* each other, in that waltz; it's lovely to watch, for me. YMMV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlUc9Sm2E9I&playnext_from=TL&videos=oDAdgU2xBEc

[QPO]

Interesting style of dance. They don't have to come together very much, it is almost like show dancing. I saw them pirouetting?(not sure if that is the right expression)  out their legs is the waltz you would not be able to do that on the floor here it would be considered an illegal move as you could potentially injure another competitor.

When they did have a body close connection I saw a lot of gapping, is that acceptable?

But on the whole their musicality and interpretation of the music was good.

[Becca]

Some judges value musicality very highly. My teacher was judging a competition recently, and marked one particular pro Smooth couple very highly; particularly in their waltz, he marked them higher than any of the other judges. He saw in them the beauty of them dancing with each other -- rather than just showing off, or being flashy, or having all the moves. They had all those things, but they also had heart, and he saw that, and commented on it to me when he returned from that comp. They were the only couple he remembered from the comp. The rest were wallpaper (my term, not his). Their video from that comp is on YT. They were indeed dancing beautifully, *with* each other, in that waltz; it's lovely to watch, for me. YMMV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlUc9Sm2E9I&playnext_from=TL&videos=oDAdgU2xBEc

ohhh I LOVE that couple! They are so fun to watch! They really do dance with each other... very beautiful!

Interesting style of dance. They don't have to come together very much, it is almost like show dancing. I saw them pirouetting?(not sure if that is the right expression)  out their legs is the waltz you would not be able to do that on the floor here it would be considered an illegal move as you could potentially injure another competitor.

When they did have a body close connection I saw a lot of gapping, is that acceptable?

But on the whole their musicality and interpretation of the music was good.

In American Smooth you don't have to have closed body contact the whole time, you are supposed to break the connection and dance apart sometimes In smooth you can't go against the line of dance or do lifts... but other than that, in open, you are really free to do a lot of different things! ( I LOVE SMOOTH!)

[elisedance]

In standard you don't either - or at least it depends on the style and the teacher.  Close contact makes it easier to follow but space makes it easier to move so I think you need both, depending on the step...

[TangoDancer]

I would love to have a judge's perspective on this.  However, we have one judge who is more of a latin specialist that always marks us rather hard and I've asked him why - he always says 'musicallity'.  Timing is such a key issue in latin

As a judge, unless I am misreading, I believe the person in question to be wrong. Timing is important, but it must be judged seperately from musicality (and, I understand that this is the very reason why musicality has a topic of its own). Yet, I believe the following supports my point.

Some judges value musicality very highly. My teacher was judging a competition recently, and marked one particular pro Smooth couple very highly; particularly in their waltz, he marked them higher than any of the other judges. He saw in them the beauty of them dancing with each other --

Internalizing / interpretation / Expression / Partnering ... these are the attributes that make up musicality in dance. They are attributes that can not be taught; only felt and dispalyed by the person/s doing it.

[QPO]

Internalizing / interpretation / Expression / Partnering ... these are the attributes that make up musicality in dance. They are attributes that can not be taught; only felt and displayed by the person/s doing it.

I agree with this statement

[drj]

Internalizing / interpretation / Expression / Partnering ... these are the attributes that make up musicality in dance. They are attributes that can not be taught;only felt and displayed by the person/s doing it.

 

AFAIC, you can't teach this. You can only free it.

[elisedance]

Internalizing / interpretation / Expression / Partnering ... these are the attributes that make up musicality in dance. They are attributes that can not be taught;only felt and displayed by the person/s doing it.

 

AFAIC, you can't teach this. You can only free it.

nice concept 'free it'  - works for some people I know, so constrained by their pasts they truly need a 'freeing' experience

[dlgodud]

A great interview with Vibeke Toft.
She specifically mentioned what she looks first from couples when she judges.

http://tancor.ru/toft/

[elisedance]

Excellent catch - I'm going to copy this here but with credit to its source:
http://tancor.ru/toft/
I don't know the name of the site as I can't read the russian language. 

"Of cause there are a lot of them. I think I am not surprise you if I say that the main one that goes on the first palace is musicality. I think that goes without saying not only for me but for all judges, coaches and dancers themselves whatever the age is. Through great understanding of music you can quickly see the level of the couple’s dancing .. if a couple has this understanding or not. That is initially important. The second is the character of a certain dance that the couple can show through music again and show understanding of its structure in every step.  That is some kind of the first category I judge whether it is a good couple or not so good. The second place of the category I would single out the technical characteristics of a couple with help of which they can show the origin of a dance it peculiarities and character….. and of cause the dynamic and speed while dancing that is impossibly without different kinds of technical abilities of both partners. The higher level of a couple is the more dominating role plays the appearance. It is also important the way they look as well as separately and together .. it is very difficult to describe but you definitely see the harmony in a couple. What’s then…I think the next category I name is so called partnering. How a lady fallows a partner and understands him."

I also thought this interesting on the ladies role:
"I thing…. that is the matter of what  I ‘m looking for in a couple….. partnering! You’ll never be sexual and sensual without a partner. It comes from the connection with a man, touch of his hand when he is handling a woman not only physically but mentally …. and again the grate understanding of music. A lot of today’s girls look very talented and powerful and dynamic. I don’t think that a woman instinctively want to be powerful and dynamic that is some kind of a man’s part that is a man’s instinct. The female’s instinct is to be sensual .. to be more sophisticated in the way as she moves.   The speed and dynamic is the part of a msn.. so we don’t create the picture of a man or a woman.. That is the harmony and each of these parts has its own role to create an impression."

But I've skipped a large part thats worth reading on other issues, including her past partnership with Allan Tornsberg.

Thanks agan DGD - this is a very interesting insight.