what are judges looking for?

[elisedance]

1. Unfortunately, and I might be cutting my own throat, I believe that judges, today, look first for what looks nice/exciting, and only looks to proper tech, etc in the case of ties, or close competition. Of curse, it should be the other way, but it is arguable that what attracts us first is the glamour and flash.

This is why, i believe anyway, that the choreography of the routine plays an integral part in the winning process. You always hear coaches, competitors  and adjudicators say that the most basic routine could be danced with perfect technique and that would win, but how infact does the attention get drawn to this type of dancing? afterall as TD stated, glamour and flash is what attracts. So the question must be asked can a couple win off flawless basics? and has anyone done so that was not a professional?

Zac

We regularly win with the most basic choreography of all the couples on the floor. Clean lines and smooth presentation will always beat a flashy, messy, technically imprecise routine.

Interesting that we were discussing that above and sort of came to the conclusion that although that was the case in theory, in practise fancy steps do make a difference - in particular at the young adult open level (and not at all at professional)

[waltzelf]

1. Unfortunately, and I might be cutting my own throat, I believe that judges, today, look first for what looks nice/exciting, and only looks to proper tech, etc in the case of ties, or close competition. Of curse, it should be the other way, but it is arguable that what attracts us first is the glamour and flash.

This is why, i believe anyway, that the choreography of the routine plays an integral part in the winning process. You always hear coaches, competitors  and adjudicators say that the most basic routine could be danced with perfect technique and that would win, but how infact does the attention get drawn to this type of dancing? afterall as TD stated, glamour and flash is what attracts. So the question must be asked can a couple win off flawless basics? and has anyone done so that was not a professional?

Zac

We regularly win with the most basic choreography of all the couples on the floor. Clean lines and smooth presentation will always beat a flashy, messy, technically imprecise routine.

Interesting that we were discussing that above and sort of came to the conclusion that although that was the case in theory, in practise fancy steps do make a difference - in particular at the young adult open level (and not at all at professional)

At opens level, the rules are a bit different - there's less of a tradeoff between flash and technique - ie. The top couples are still technically competant while being flashy, and the technically competant couples are doing flashier routines than the raw basics.

However, at the lower levels, it would be very, very rare for a wild and flashy couple to compete against a clean and precise couple. In fact, my partner and I have worked very hard to transition from the former to the latter. We've cut 90% of the spice out of our routines and focused on creating strong, clean lines with minimal risk of distortion. We've been that much more competitive in level 2 and 3 (the middle grades in Australian dancesport) as a result. When we are beaten, it is not by the couple with the crazy steps.

[elisedance]

I agree entirely.  And my comment was definitely restricted to open levels.
We don't have the same issue since steps are limited until the dancers are actually quite advanced technically.  Correct me if I am wrong but I think your restricted step levels are passed relatively early. 

[MusicChica]

We regularly win with the most basic choreography of all the couples on the floor. Clean lines and smooth presentation will always beat a flashy, messy, technically imprecise routine.

I'll agree with that.  In a workshop with the Paramonovs, Andre and Natalie said that judges are primarily, at the most basic levels, looking for timing and body lines.

[waltzelf]

I agree entirely.  And my comment was definitely restricted to open levels.
We don't have the same issue since steps are limited until the dancers are actually quite advanced technically.  Correct me if I am wrong but I think your restricted step levels are passed relatively early. 

Yes, once you move past level 1 in Australia, the book is opened - you can do whatever steps you like.

Of course, many couples take this to mean free license and end up trying to do things well beyond their means.

[QPO]

Keep it simple is still my moto, we di that at Canberra, did a level one routine in level two and elevated.... everyone was trying to do flashy stuff and not pulling it off....so the KISS principle always is a good base...

[elisedance]

Keep it simple is still my moto, we di that at Canberra, did a level one routine in level two and elevated.... everyone was trying to do flashy stuff and not pulling it off....so the KISS principle always is a good base...

I think that works really well - until you are in open and then it simply doesn't cut it.  The fact is that everyone does basic pretty well already so doing it outstandingly does not get you onto the winners podium.  Which (as discussed above) is different from the top pro levels

[QPO]

yes. we are now trying to get lessons with someone that will improve our topline, our current coach does an excellant job with the feet but the ones that won over us on the week-end well the foot work was shocking but the topline was much stronger.

[ZPomeroy]

 have always wondered this actually, is the topline of a couple more important to judges than the footwork? I know there will be differences between judges thoughts on the question, but as a whole what do you think the judging community appreciates more?

Zac

[IrenaAlexandria]

have always wondered this actually, is the topline of a couple more important to judges than the footwork? I know there will be differences between judges thoughts on the question, but as a whole what do you think the judging community appreciates more?

Zac

I've often heard that judges won't even look at your feet unless you have a good topline. I take that to mean your footwork won't save you from a bad topline. On the other hand, you can't achieve good sways and shaping without good footwork. So if you have a bad topline, chances are your feet are bad too

[Some guy]

That's my understanding: the top line is a result of what's done with your hips and below.  I always find it so hilarious when my coach points at her hips and goes, "this is my top line!".  So if the top line is good, then no need to look at anything below.

As for what the judges are looking for, I think the key is to find things that have maximum impact and minimum effort.  So throwing in complex stuff might end up getting you into more trouble if you can't pull it off as looking effortless with maximum impact.  Finding the perfect balance of putting in effortless choreo that create maximum impact is the key. 

[IrenaAlexandria]

Well said, Some guy. My coach is always saying "I want a 10 performance with 2 effort"

[Some guy]

Well said, Some guy. My coach is always saying "I want a 10 performance with 2 effort"

Sounds like my previous coach! 

[elisedance]

Well said, Some guy. My coach is always saying "I want a 10 performance with 2 effort"

Sounds like my previous coach! 

so what would your current coach say?

[dlgodud]

One thing I've heard what judges look for is depending on what their specialty is.
For example, judeges who are ballroom dancers and they come to judge for a latin competition, what they first look at is the posture.
So it might be possible that if a judge is a latin dancer, probably they look at something that what a latin dancer does.