what are judges looking for?

[elisedance]

This has come up in other topics but I think we need one specifically on this and in one place. 

We can do our 5 dances fairly well now and are at the stage of getting the actions right to be competetive.  But the question comes up of course, what are the right actions?

I think I have the best idea in Waltz as it is a very active dance with lots of elemens that you have to nail - ballance, movement, musicallity, ease, but I have less of an idea in FT and tango, less still in QS which is so busy, and least of all in VW.

Would love to have some more specific input from those in the know...

[TangoDancer]

I believe your post to be 2 fold... 2 topics in one. 1- what are judges looking for? 2- what are the desired/mandatory characteristics of each dance? In reply:

1. Unfortunately, and I might be cutting my own throat, I believe that judges, today, look first for what looks nice/exciting, and only looks to proper tech, etc in the case of ties, or close competition. Of curse, it should be the other way, but it is arguable that what attracts us first is the glamour and flash.

2.  Waltz - swing, glide, styling; Fox - hover, float, timing; Tango - difference of balance, stillness, perfect combination of smooth and latin; Quickstep - perfect combination of smooth and staccatto action (quick... not fast); Vienesse - first and foremost... a waltz, not over-rotating (maintaining smoothness), and most of all, proper timing.

[elisedance]

I believe your post to be 2 fold... 2 topics in one. 1- what are judges looking for? 2- what are the desired/mandatory characteristics of each dance? In reply:

1. Unfortunately, and I might be cutting my own throat, I believe that judges, today, look first for what looks nice/exciting, and only looks to proper tech, etc in the case of ties, or close competition. Of curse, it should be the other way, but it is arguable that what attracts us first is the glamour and flash.

2.  Waltz - swing, glide, styling; Fox - hover, float, timing; Tango - difference of balance, stillness, perfect combination of smooth and latin; Quickstep - perfect combination of smooth and staccatto action (quick... not fast); Vienesse - first and foremost... a waltz, not over-rotating (maintaining smoothness), and most of all, proper timing.

That is exactly what I was looking for TD.  Thanks.

[QPO]

thanks for that. will think of those things when I am next on the floor

[ZPomeroy]

1. Unfortunately, and I might be cutting my own throat, I believe that judges, today, look first for what looks nice/exciting, and only looks to proper tech, etc in the case of ties, or close competition. Of curse, it should be the other way, but it is arguable that what attracts us first is the glamour and flash.

This is why, i believe anyway, that the choreography of the routine plays an integral part in the winning process. You always hear coaches, competitors  and adjudicators say that the most basic routine could be danced with perfect technique and that would win, but how infact does the attention get drawn to this type of dancing? afterall as TD stated, glamour and flash is what attracts. So the question must be asked can a couple win off flawless basics? and has anyone done so that was not a professional?

Zac

[elisedance]

I've wondered about this a lot.  And I think the answer lies in the level of the competition.  A couple entering championship will look boring compared to those that have been there a while and are doing complex steps.  Since 'look' and 'performance' are definitely parts of dancesport this will factor.  At the top levels the assumption is that the couples can dance just about anything anyway so what distinguishes them is not pyrotechnics but clarity of dance and outstanding technique.  Which may explain why the top levels of youth dancing is so frenetic while that of professionals so calm....

[TangoDancer]

I've wondered about this a lot.  And I think the answer lies in the level of the competition.  A couple entering championship will look boring compared to those that have been there a while and are doing complex steps.  Since 'look' and 'performance' are definitely parts of dancesport this will factor.  At the top levels the assumption is that the couples can dance just about anything anyway so what distinguishes them is not pyrotechnics but clarity of dance and outstanding technique.  Which may explain why the top levels of youth dancing is so frenetic while that of professionals so calm....

I believe the probleme to eb that which I have highlighted. "Boring" to whom? Why? It doesn't have to look nor be boring. However, if a spectator, or judge, looks at good basics as boring, and flash as being advanced, well.....

Secondly, I also believe that this (the second highlight) is the downfall. BR is concerned w/ good dancing; DS is concerned with good showmanship. I have systematically followed the dramatic/tramatic shift from BR to DS since DS's inception.

Lasty, i beleive what explains the diffs between the ages most is maturity.

[elisedance]

so do you truly believe that a youth couple doing excellent basic technique will win a competition where the other couples are doing very good technique but also shooting through the most coplex twists and turns?  I think the lip service is Yes but in practise what i have observed is that it is not the case.  There is an expectation of complexity for that age group.

[TangoDancer]

so do you truly believe that a youth couple doing excellent basic technique will win a competition where the other couples are doing very good technique but also shooting through the most coplex twists and turns?  I think the lip service is Yes

No. I agree 100% that they would not.

[QPO]

I think this is very difficult, we had a couple who are level 5 dancers  starting a new style of NV and they did the beginner levels, they completely stuffed it up twice and they still gave them second place. we saw the others and as much as they were to perfect they did not muck it up  so what were the judges looking at to give them a second place  and there were more than two couples on the floor I think there were at least four

[IrenaAlexandria]

Just my 2 cents... It's not just about "excellent technique and simple choreography" vs "good technique and flash choreography"... the judges want to see you giving a true performance. There were many times that couples placed above me, even when I had much better technique. Why? They had better presentation, connection with each other, were having more fun.

[elisedance]

Just my 2 cents... It's not just about "excellent technique and simple choreography" vs "good technique and flash choreography"... the judges want to see you giving a true performance. There were many times that couples placed above me, even when I had much better technique. Why? They had better presentation, connection with each other, were having more fun.

Very true - I think we have limited it a bit too much.  So how would you rank these different aspects from a judges perspective?  (ignoring for now that each judge will have a different view and obviously will see the couple at a different time)

[QPO]

every judge has a different focus, one of my coaches is a stickler for top line and the other for footwork... you have to try your best and improve what you can...I feel that most judges prefer a strong top line over footwork

[elisedance]

every judge has a different focus, one of my coaches is a stickler for top line and the other for footwork... you have to try your best and improve what you can...I feel that most judges prefer a strong top line over footwork

maybe you need a third coach for the bit inbetween?

[waltzelf]

1. Unfortunately, and I might be cutting my own throat, I believe that judges, today, look first for what looks nice/exciting, and only looks to proper tech, etc in the case of ties, or close competition. Of curse, it should be the other way, but it is arguable that what attracts us first is the glamour and flash.

This is why, i believe anyway, that the choreography of the routine plays an integral part in the winning process. You always hear coaches, competitors  and adjudicators say that the most basic routine could be danced with perfect technique and that would win, but how infact does the attention get drawn to this type of dancing? afterall as TD stated, glamour and flash is what attracts. So the question must be asked can a couple win off flawless basics? and has anyone done so that was not a professional?

Zac

We regularly win with the most basic choreography of all the couples on the floor. Clean lines and smooth presentation will always beat a flashy, messy, technically imprecise routine.