Viennese - advanced

[elisedance]

I think this dance needs some fine tuning!

Natural turns in VW are amazing because the man and woman in essence alternate the same actions.  But I'm learning that they though the step sequence is the same the actions are not.

First, I think its best to count VW in 6s: if you listen to the music you will hear a strong bar followed by a weak one.  In the natural turn, the man goes forward on the one and the woman on the 4 with very different emphases.

Second, and this is what prompted the topic, you have to stay on beat and yet the woman has to also follow.  So is it correct for the her to be very slightly behind the beat?  I find that DP is much happier if I do that but worry that it will not look musical....

[TangoDancer]

I agree w/ this (that, yes, this is how it should be danced).

[elisedance]

txs TD.... you've made DP a happy man

[ZPomeroy]

In the natural turn, the man goes forward on the one and the woman on the 4 with very different emphases.

Reading this made me realize, as a bar is complete, or 6 beats as Elise put it, the man and lady actually transfer leading and following aspects when the man step forward on the 1 and lady on the 4. So does this mean that the lady swings the left side as the man does? and vica versa, the man follows the ladies swing?

Zac

[elisedance]

Yes - but (as I understand it) there is a different degree of swing.  The man's is greater... Also, even when the woman is going forward she is not really leading since she is still slightly behind the beat... which is why I feel the woman actually never leads; she invites but she does not lead...

[mayoz]

my teacher told me, because the 2nd bar of the music is weaker, so even it is the lady's turn to step forward. She is not so active like man, her swing will also not as strong as man.

[elisedance]

my teacher told me, because the 2nd bar of the music is weaker, so even it is the lady's turn to step forward. She is not so active like man, her swing will also not as strong as man.

I think thats what we mean by counting VW in 6 beats:
One two three, four five six

Glad to hear that our assessment agrees with your teachers...

[mayoz]

Great ! You are always a very attentive lady. The "one" in your typing is darker than the "four" !

[elisedance]

Thank you - just wish I could make the writing actually 'talk' to you

[cornutt]

Yes - but (as I understand it) there is a different degree of swing.  The man's is greater...

I've actually been taught to use minimal swing for the left turn -- the body rotation that results from the Viennese cross substitutes for it.  Same reason you don't use foot rise in the left turn.  The right turn is done much more conventionally. 

As an experiment in smooth class a few weeks ago, we all tried doing right turns (by ourselves) using the cross... it was weird.   

[elisedance]

agreed on the lack of swing in the left (reverse) turn there is instead a gentle rise and fall...

[TangoDancer]

Yes - but (as I understand it) there is a different degree of swing.  The man's is greater...

I've actually been taught to use minimal swing for the left turn -- the body rotation that results from the Viennese cross substitutes for it.  Same reason you don't use foot rise in the left turn.  The right turn is done much more conventionally. 

As an experiment in smooth class a few weeks ago, we all tried doing right turns (by ourselves) using the cross... it was weird.   

Hmm.... a little concerned by this lack of swing thing.  You wrote that the body rotation that results from the Viennese cross substitutes for it. Yet, this is backwards. The cross results from the rotation... not the rotation from the cross. And, the rotation is exemplified by the swing. Tell me more of what you guys are getting at, please.

On the other point, i find crossing on the right turn wierd, as well, but do you know that there re some amer schools that actually teach it! 

[elisedance]

perhaps we are being naive - are you talking about a rotational swing in the reverse? I usually associate the word with an up/down/up action...

[cornutt]

Hmm.... a little concerned by this lack of swing thing.  You wrote that the body rotation that results from the Viennese cross substitutes for it. Yet, this is backwards. The cross results from the rotation... not the rotation from the cross.

You are correct... the actual foot-crossing is an artifact of the rotational motion.  I was using the term to refer to the whole motion.  I should have been clearer. 

And, the rotation is exemplified by the swing. Tell me more of what you guys are getting at, please.

Must think about that... if there is swing, it's not at all like conventional swing.  There's already a lot of rotation... don't want to over-rotate that.

On the other point, i find crossing on the right turn wierd, as well, but do you know that there re some amer schools that actually teach it! 

Really!... I haven't encountered that.