partnerdanceonline.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 23, 2014, 08:21:41 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
A lot of people are visiting Smiley Smiley
Undecided Undecided but not many are posting....
please say hi Cheesy
116187 Posts in 1853 Topics by 221 Members
Latest Member: cleverpete
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  partnerdanceonline.com
|-+  Partner Dancing
| |-+  Partner Dances
| | |-+  General partner dance issues (Moderators: Rugby, cornutt)
| | | |-+  Which harder: Man's job or woman's?
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] Print
Author Topic: Which harder: Man's job or woman's?  (Read 4309 times)
QPO
reg mods
Continental Champion
****
Posts: 20763


Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #75 on: March 25, 2010, 07:34:16 AM »

up to a point - the temptation is very strong to try to keep us on beat - that just puts him off because, as I understand it, the woman is always a little behind the beat - else she is not following..
[/size]

some followers are a big behind but some of us leaders are big in front so we keep you nicely on the beat
( I know this should go in the double entrdre thread! Tongue)

What you do so well!
Logged

Dance is a delicate balance between perfection and beauty.  ~Author Unknown
Dance Forum
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
*
Posts: 1437


« Reply #76 on: May 21, 2010, 03:07:10 PM »

so true,, I believe that is the only way a women can follow properly by have that delay. we always start our practice with a following and leading exercise and stopping and starting again. I feel start to feel more confident it my following abilities and if he needs to change because of a traffic jam..... Tongue
I used to believe that the woman was slightly behind, before I realized that the same internal lead that initiates my step, power, timing, direction, and speed, is the same internal lead that initiates her's.  So in other words, we both move at exactly the same time.  I could be dead wrong on this one but it's just my personal experience.  

Locomotion starts much higher and deeper in our bodies than most of the folks I've talked about this with realize.  The same thing that gets my rib cage swinging to where my legs start to move is the same thing that gets my partner's body moving.  I was able to actually move my partner faster than I was able to move myself.  I find that making my partner move a little ahead of me actually gives me space to step into.  That way I never steam-roll her over.  

So in short, it used to be that I believed that the lady delays the movement, but now I believe that it's the man who needs to delay actual movement until the lady has given him space to step into.  This is achieved by exaggerating the initiation of locomotion that makes the lady's body react faster than my own.  It sounds bizarre when typed, I guess you have to "be there".  Smiley  To me it's: man initiates, lady moves, man moves following lady's movement and occupies space that lady has created for him.  Going back to the grocery cart analogy, if the lady is the grocery cart, then it's in the man's best interest to get the grocery cart moving and then step into the space that's created for him.  Otherwise he'll have battered and bruised shins.  My deux cents.  I meant 2 cents, not two hundred!   Grin  
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 03:09:44 PM by Some guy » Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 34896


ee


« Reply #77 on: May 21, 2010, 03:17:36 PM »

Love the way you put that - but don't forget, sometimes its the man who goes backwards Wink
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
*
Posts: 1437


« Reply #78 on: May 21, 2010, 05:40:10 PM »

Love the way you put that - but don't forget, sometimes its the man who goes backwards Wink
Thanks Elise.  I was wondering that very same thing, but it doesn't change anything I said.  I'm still keeping pace with the lady, never the other way around.  So in essence, in a weird way, I'm following how much she moves. 
Logged
QPO
reg mods
Continental Champion
****
Posts: 20763


Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2010, 09:58:46 PM »

well we are still learning on the waiting and collecting, but it is bringing our dancing to another level
Logged

Dance is a delicate balance between perfection and beauty.  ~Author Unknown
Dance Forum
drj
Bronze
*
Posts: 334



« Reply #80 on: May 22, 2010, 08:18:23 AM »

I'm still keeping pace with the lady, never the other way around.  So in essence, in a weird way, I'm following how much she moves. 

Nothing weird about that. What else can you do? I don't move, you don't move. This is one of the earliest lessons my instructor tried to teach me, and I'm not proud of how long it took to sink in.
Logged

ancora imparo
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 34896


ee


« Reply #81 on: May 22, 2010, 08:53:41 AM »

Love the way you put that - but don't forget, sometimes its the man who goes backwards Wink
Thanks Elise.  I was wondering that very same thing, but it doesn't change anything I said.  I'm still keeping pace with the lady, never the other way around.  So in essence, in a weird way, I'm following how much she moves. 
I actually don't agree - you have to move to get out of MY way.  The man initiates (as always) but then he moves so that I can come through.  You don't wait for me to power because we would be a train wreck...
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
*
Posts: 1437


« Reply #82 on: May 24, 2010, 12:10:35 AM »

Au contraire, per the Body School, mobility of the partnership is the lady's job, not the man's.  If I try to move to get out of the lady's way, then I won't be doing my jobs.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 12:12:06 AM by Some guy » Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 34896


ee


« Reply #83 on: May 24, 2010, 07:27:35 AM »

but then what of your logic above?  That she can't move if you are in the way?  Obvioulsy I have to go back to BS101 Undecided
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Some guy
Intermediate Silver
*
Posts: 1437


« Reply #84 on: May 24, 2010, 01:18:26 PM »

but then what of your logic above?  That she can't move if you are in the way?  Obvioulsy I have to go back to BS101 Undecided
I know, I understand your confusion.  When it was explained to me first, I was like, "huh?!  But... huh?!".  Then I realized that learning ballroom dancing is something that has to be demonstrated, and when I finally got it, it made perfect sense.  Learning ballroom dancing without demonstration is like learning to ride a bike by reading a book.  It's a LOT harder.

I'll see if this makes sense: when I walk, I begin the internal act of locomotion (ribs cage swing, center moving, etc.) that eventually works it's way down to my legs and get my legs walking.  So in other words, my upper body leads the movement and my legs "follow" it.  The same internal act that determines which leg I move and what size of step I take is the same lead that the girl follows.  This is not something that needs to be trained.  It's something we had intense training on since we were little kids hanging onto a parent's hand and walking.  Today when we walk hand in hand with someone, it's quite easy to follow size and direction without ever thinking of it.  We are able to read their lead without them having use hips, legs, feet, energy, etc. 

So back to the dancing, her legs and my legs move at almost exactly the same time.  However, I've learned that hair-trigger followers can actually follow my internal lead FASTER than my own self.  I.e. when I "think" of moving, she's already gone.  Not only has she gone, but she has taken me with her.  Since it was my thought (initiation) that sets us both off down whichever path I chose, both our bodies are following one lead.  So it's hard to say whose getting out of whose way.  We're both followers.  Now, since mobility is the lady's job, she has the freedom to interpret how much mobility she wants.  She can do what my lead indicated or embellish it if she feels like it.  When she does that, her thought, her internal locomotion in her upper body, then becomes the leader and we both follow it.  Whether going forwards or backwards, it's one lead that we're both following at any given time.   My coach always says that it should feel like a walk in the park.  I keep realizing that there are many facets to this statement. 
Logged
Dora-Satya Veda
Gold Star
***
Posts: 6871


« Reply #85 on: May 27, 2010, 04:56:39 AM »

I know, I understand your confusion.  When it was explained to me first, I was like, "huh?!  But... huh?!".  Then I realized that learning ballroom dancing is something that has to be demonstrated, and when I finally got it, it made perfect sense.  Learning ballroom dancing without demonstration is like learning to ride a bike by reading a book.  It's a LOT harder.

My teacher used to say that great dancing cannot be copied. He always said that only a conscious competent dancer can really teach what is going on and if you’re very lucky they might tell you. He also said that most people because of being stuck in social consciousness, with the physical laws and the limitation they set for themselves will never accept the truth.

Quote
I.e. when I "think" of moving, she's already gone.  Not only has she gone, but she has taken me with her. 

I remember having a lesson with one of the very best lady dancers in England for the first time. My partner took hold with her to dance and WOW. He initiated and she took off. I started laughing because he looked like g-force was giving him a facelift. I still laugh just with the thought of the way his face looked. After a few steps they were down the other end and as they walked back he said “WOW, what a ride. Please teach my partner to give me a ride like that every time”. Well, I sure had my work cut out for me but I would say I did learn to give him a bit of a ride.

Quote
So it's hard to say whose getting out of whose way.  We're both followers. 

Lead, initiate, follow, respond……at a high level of dancing the borders between those actions disappear.

Quote
My coach always says that it should feel like a walk in the park.  I keep realizing that there are many facets to this statement. 

My teacher used to say this all the time. I am still learning new facets to this every time I walk in the park or dance.

DSV

Logged

"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
Bordertangoman
Gold Star
***
Posts: 6088



« Reply #86 on: May 27, 2010, 05:09:22 AM »

Man's

If the addage "That behind every succesful man is a smart woman" is true then what happens when she's round in front?



Footnote: variations:

Behind every great man is a woman rolling her eyes
Behind every successful man stands a surprised mother-in-law ( Voltaire)
Behind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his wife. Groucho Marx
Logged

”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
phoenix13
Gold
***
Posts: 3359



« Reply #87 on: June 26, 2013, 06:36:12 PM »

I know, I understand your confusion.  When it was explained to me first, I was like, "huh?!  But... huh?!".  Then I realized that learning ballroom dancing is something that has to be demonstrated, and when I finally got it, it made perfect sense.  Learning ballroom dancing without demonstration is like learning to ride a bike by reading a book.  It's a LOT harder.

My teacher used to say that great dancing cannot be copied. He always said that only a conscious competent dancer can really teach what is going on and if you’re very lucky they might tell you. He also said that most people because of being stuck in social consciousness, with the physical laws and the limitation they set for themselves will never accept the truth.

Quote
I.e. when I "think" of moving, she's already gone.  Not only has she gone, but she has taken me with her. 

I remember having a lesson with one of the very best lady dancers in England for the first time. My partner took hold with her to dance and WOW. He initiated and she took off. I started laughing because he looked like g-force was giving him a facelift. I still laugh just with the thought of the way his face looked. After a few steps they were down the other end and as they walked back he said “WOW, what a ride. Please teach my partner to give me a ride like that every time”. Well, I sure had my work cut out for me but I would say I did learn to give him a bit of a ride.

Quote
So it's hard to say whose getting out of whose way.  We're both followers. 

Lead, initiate, follow, respond……at a high level of dancing the borders between those actions disappear.

Quote
My coach always says that it should feel like a walk in the park.  I keep realizing that there are many facets to this statement. 

My teacher used to say this all the time. I am still learning new facets to this every time I walk in the park or dance.

DSV



I absolutely love this! Smiley 

Reminds me of what one of my (seriously church-going) GFs always says.

"He's the head,but I'm the neck."  Meaning that the follow, despite appearances to the contrary, has a lot of power in a good dance partnership.

Very cool.
Logged

Dona nobis pacem.
millitiz
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 220


« Reply #88 on: June 27, 2013, 10:31:38 PM »

Very fascinating discussion!

Well, the question on the topic is a bit, uh, excuse for my word, dumb - in the sense that it is like comparing orange to banana (and our gender bias would probably kick in). But there are a few intriguing sub topics.

This is unrelated to the topic, or the sub topic per say; for me, the hardest part as a follow (when I am dancing as a follow) is the waiting part. It feels so long (I am certain that my perspective is distorted,  because I am fairly certain that we were on time...I think. And it was a quickstep, so there is no way that it could be really long in actual time.) that I freaked out a little bit. Why didn't she start the initiation...did she already send the signal, and I missed it?

The other really interesting part is that, the only "music" that I heard is from my partner's body. Yes, I could still hear the music, but it is kinda at the background. It kinda feels like when watching movies, there are sections when the actors are talking, yet still playing the music at the same time - the music is pushed to the background that you merely noticing it. It is a very different experience for me.

Logged
phoenix13
Gold
***
Posts: 3359



« Reply #89 on: June 28, 2013, 02:04:31 AM »

Cool.  I wondered what things would look like, to someone who dances both parts.
Logged

Dona nobis pacem.
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!