Which harder: Man's job or woman's?

[Rugby]

What are the women's jobs? Or, is that a secret?

[elisedance]

What are the women's jobs? Or, is that a secret?

I'm going to send you back to the body school section to do your home work

[QPO]

indeed...but we all read things in our own time...

[Rugby]

What are the women's jobs? Or, is that a secret?

I'm going to send you back to the body school section to do your home work

That wasn't me, the evil Catsmeow jumped onto my computer and posted when I went downstairs to get us some water.
And I thought Kittius was bad for computer hijacking!

[elisedance]

then you will have to set him the task fo reading through the archives!!
maybe he can summarise for us (there somewhere) when he is done

And you can give him a clue that cleaning the toilet is definitely not one of the ascribed tasks...

[Bordertangoman]

I've come to accept it implicity.  The reason is that my DP (who, I confess, I used to think was a bit clueless) freaks out if I do anything that he is supposed to do.  I've now got to the point where I just wait and do, wait and do - and its working very well for us dancing wise.  I hope it does so eventually competition wise too

we need a topic on that I think....

in AT i'm using to occasional hijacking by a follower; sometimes its fun; if I get it quick enough to follow!

[Graham]

My general belief is that the roles are equally as hard (or easy - yeah, right).
However (just waiting for that weren't you), from the starting premise that a couple want to get on the floor as quickly as possible and dancing, the guys role is harder (initially). The follow can complement him, but she (!) needs something to complement.

When teaching I usually give the example (to beginners), it's like singing a capella for the guy. No music, no songsheet with the words written down. The lady is more like a karaoke. The music is playing and the words are available. It'sa  self-correcting process. The lady may make a few minor mistakes, but keeps getting corrected back to 'normal' so that the mistake doesn't grow into a catastrophy.

Later on, if the couple progress far enough, then the guy may have more complex steps possibly done free style. NOW the lady really has to be able to follow and maintain presentation and technique.

So, steep learning curve for the guy initially, and a steep learning curve later for the lady.

As an aside, I hate it when people say that ladies learn dance faster than men. If I have the opportunity to teach them, then I give the lady loads of stuff for her to do all at the same time, and funny enough, that seems to slow her learning rate down to the guys level.
To be 'successful' on the social dance floor as a beginner (able to dance around the floor without stopping frequently and without forcing the partner) requires 1. the guy to know how to do his step (and plan ahead for the next step), 2. how to lead the same step (at least a little), 3. on time with the music (prefereably, but not essential), 4. how to navigate the floor (e.g. getting around corners) AND 5. how to avoid moving targets (people). The lady has to 1. follow the guys timing (regardless of the music) and 2. follow the step being led.
Accepted, not all tasks are equally difficult. But it's still harder to deal with 5 issues than 2.

Remember, this is as beginners and in the social world. For more advanced dancers, the requirements can change. I don't think about the steps or what I am going to do next. I'm watching the floor action, paying intermittent attention to the lead (depending on the complexity of the step, I trust my partner to follow basics without me having to pay attention to low level lead/follow), considering presentation issues (frame/posture etc.) and technical issues (rolling the foot, foot placement, hip action etc.). I only ever freestyle, I have no time for choreography. Personal choice.

Graham
leads and follows.

[elisedance]

Right on G.  I think what this discussion lacks is the reality that we are all better at some things than others - and these differences are far more important than the male/female jobs in the dance partnership.  Thus, my DP has a very analytical mind and can internalize instructions very effectively.  He is excellent at figuring out steps and routines and also at floor craft and creating a frame.  OTOH I am more expressive and sense the music better, and much more comfortable with letting go and dancing from the R brain as it were.   

[Bordertangoman]

Men

[Graham]

BTM - succint

[Rugby]

Right on G.  I think what this discussion lacks is the reality that we are all better at some things than others - and these differences are far more important than the male/female jobs in the dance partnership.  Thus, my DP has a very analytical mind and can internalize instructions very effectively.  He is excellent at figuring out steps and routines and also at floor craft and creating a frame.  OTOH I am more expressive and sense the music better, and much more comfortable with letting go and dancing from the R brain as it were.   

I agree.  I also think that we have to play up each other's strengths to make a better unit.  ee is an accomplished musician so her DP should be grateful that he can count on her to help him be expressive to the music.  If he wants to express it without her input because "he" is the lead then he is throwing away a huge benefit.  Seeing that she has this gift then when he "indicates" the move he should give her the freedom to take it and make more of it then he could on his own.

[QPO]

I agree that each is as hard as the other but are a skill that needs to be understood. It takes very good partnerships to acknowledge this  and encourage each other to be the best they can be.

[elisedance]

Right on G.  I think what this discussion lacks is the reality that we are all better at some things than others - and these differences are far more important than the male/female jobs in the dance partnership.  Thus, my DP has a very analytical mind and can internalize instructions very effectively.  He is excellent at figuring out steps and routines and also at floor craft and creating a frame.  OTOH I am more expressive and sense the music better, and much more comfortable with letting go and dancing from the R brain as it were.   

I agree.  I also think that we have to play up each other's strengths to make a better unit.  ee is an accomplished musician so her DP should be grateful that he can count on her to help him be expressive to the music.  If he wants to express it without her input because "he" is the lead then he is throwing away a huge benefit.  Seeing that she has this gift then when he "indicates" the move he should give her the freedom to take it and make more of it then he could on his own.

up to a point - the temptation is very strong to try to keep us on beat - that just puts him off because, as I understand it, the woman is always a little behind the beat - else she is not following..

[QPO]

so true,, I believe that is the only way a women can follow properly by have that delay. we always start our practice with a following and leading exercise and stopping and starting again. I feel start to feel more confident it my following abilities and if he needs to change because of a traffic jam.....

[Bordertangoman]

up to a point - the temptation is very strong to try to keep us on beat - that just puts him off because, as I understand it, the woman is always a little behind the beat - else she is not following..

[/size]

some followers are a big behind but some of us leaders are big in front so we keep you nicely on the beat
( I know this should go in the double entrdre thread! )