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Author Topic: Stepping on toes  (Read 2219 times)
QPO
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Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2009, 07:58:57 PM »

Has been a few months since my last AT class but what you say makes sense. we just don't have time to go back to it at the moment. Love the dance :-)

Great Interchange everyone
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captain jep
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« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2009, 04:32:02 AM »

yes I know - catch 22! is it something you think that might happen when you are feeling down? Im worried that it's caused by lack of confidence or something.
Tango is the most connected dance I know. In salsa or MJ, you can pretty much fake it to a point.

In Tango, if you're hesitant, your partner feels it. She may not know she feels it, but she does. And yes, lack of confidence really does get transmitted to your partner. It's like some scary telepathy thing.

Like with all Tango Crises, the key is sheer pig-headed stubbornness - at least, that works for me.  Wink

I think there's a little bit of masochist in us all    Cool   

Thanks, Sam, DB, for your advice. I'll now focus on my breathing...
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Vagabond
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~ Mai Più Senza! ~


« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2009, 02:38:39 AM »

I think that the most common mistake dancers make, when they are use to do ballroom, is the way to hold themselves.
The so-called "A-Frame" is the most important way to start the AT and after that practise your "walking" steps (caminando).

In most cases the inexperienced AT dancer is trying to get the hips to close to eachother (as in ballroom) wherby it becomes difficult not to step on toes at times.

It is also not required to  have a close embrace (abrazo), in fact it is the woman that will determine if she will allow the man to do so, an open embrace can actually be preffered to practise you AT as a beginner. Regardless open or closed, the abrazo is not rigid, but relaxed, like a cuddle or hug

Also the "step" is flat, not a heel lead nor a point as in a toe. By projecting your chest towards the direction of the step you would like to do, and there for giving clear messages about your intentions, it becomes easier for the follower to preceed into any patterns of movement.

Over the years people have switched from one style to the other but I think that Tango Salon is the best form to start of with AT, its social and, in my opinion, non-prettending.


Music is important and will determine the style that will be danced but so far I have never encounted "undancable music" all you have to do  is improvise.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 02:44:24 AM by Vagabond » Logged

Dancing with the feet is one thing, but dancing with the heart is another.
captain jep
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« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2009, 03:42:03 AM »

Hi Vagabond

The problem comes in applying the principles. As teachers would say (show your) Intention then Movement. You must make it clear before you step that you are going to step. In AT we use the chest as the "outlet" for this intention but in fact the intention comes from the ground up. All fine and good - the problem is applying it consistently. Especially at normal or double time tempo.

Whether you have a flat or heel lead isnt especially important in AT. Or not important in the sense that the main thing is to drive the movement. The lady couldnt care less whether you're going toe or heel first. (well unless you are being "judged" in some competition that is!!)
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Vagabond
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« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2009, 03:58:35 AM »

Hi capt Jep.

Quote
In AT we use the chest as the "outlet" for this intention but in fact the intention comes from the ground up. All fine and good - the problem is applying it consistently. Especially at normal or double time tempo.
I thought I had the same explanation
Quote
By projecting your chest towards the direction of the step you would like to do, and there for giving clear messages about your intentions, it becomes easier for the follower to preceed into any patterns of movement.

being a tanaddict, I have to agree with you.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 04:23:29 AM by Vagabond » Logged

Dancing with the feet is one thing, but dancing with the heart is another.
TangoDancer
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« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2009, 12:52:24 AM »

A couple of things, if I may............

1. For CJ, I know that you understand projection, lead from chest, etc. Here might be something that many miss, and the argentines do not explain in a typical american way, but was shown to me by Rudy Dinzel and Juan Carlos Copes. You have to do this; to only picture it sometimes gets lost. Get a tray like the one that you would have at a cafeteria. Hold it with the arms underneath. As you walk, you hold it, albeit without tension, afront of you as you move. Arrive at a table, and watch how you place the tray onto it. You do so by maintaining a tone in the arms; otherwise, the tray will fall. The point of the exercise is to show that leading from the chest is actually not true. it is the argentine way of explaining a concept. They understand it, but it doesn't translate well.

We lead, not from the chest, but from the center of the core. The chest is only their way of putting it into english. Persons like Fabian Salas, actually trained to speak the language in an american law school, says it very well...one's center. Once we understand this, and apply the exercise of the tray, we realize that leading from the chest encompasses all of the embrace, inclusive of the tonal quality of the shoulders and arms. Not to sound funny to the ladies, but we lead them like we would a tray of food at the cafeteria.

2. For Malakawa, As it has been said, your query is a difficult one unseen. However, a very knowledgable coach stresses quite often the absolute necessity of moving from and to the middle of each step in tango. If you are positioned as such, and project from middle to middle this will help because you are focusing on placing your weight equally between both ot your feet "and" to the middle of your partner (thus sharing a common center).

Secondly, do this exercise. Stand with the feet together. Now, keeping the knees together, sweep the leg out to the side. Do this until you can identify this feeling throughout the entire leg (do not forget the feeling of the foot sweeping up from the floor). Now, know that there are no forward and back ganchos. All ganchos are taken sideways, that is, not "precisely", but sideways as in how the leg moves when it is swept away from the body while keeping the knees tightened inward.

Hope this helps.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
captain jep
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« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2009, 07:30:55 AM »

Thanks Tango Dancer. Very interesting and sounds like something to try. (I havent been ignoring your post - just havent been to tango for a while - and have been dealing with the withdrawal symptoms ...  Cool )
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Bordertangoman
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« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2009, 10:41:57 AM »

A couple of things, if I may............

1. For CJ, I know that you understand projection, lead from chest, etc. Here might be something that many miss, and the argentines do not explain in a typical american way, but was shown to me by Rudy Dinzel and Juan Carlos Copes.


Copes eh;

well I cant argue you with you know; where's the bowing emotican when you need it!
:bow:
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Blue Tango
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« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2009, 10:04:58 PM »

I have to say that as one newly addicted I'm finding all these comments very helpful.  Keep them up; I'll be watching and learning.
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