I'm Impressed

[albanaich]

I like this discussion and the points you are making. Contray to your expectations I'm not in the least offended.

The whole thing is about understanding why we see things so differently :-) If we understand why one form of dance looks absolutely hideous to one person and beautiful to another we understand more about what dance itself is.

One thing that is you instantly know is what 'good' follower is whether you are doing Argentine Tango, Ballroom or Swing. I was doing doing 'dance dummy' with some comp;ete novices and there was this Irish girl, never danced before, at all. I could more or less dance with her straight away, ok so there were mistakes, but she just went where you put her, no fuss, no 'I don't know the steps' - she just instinctly knew how to move with me.

Lots and lots of natural talent.

Incidentally, the observation that the lady's moverment were in any way 'uncontrolled' is completely wrong. Melissa Rutz, before becoming involved in WCS spent most of her life in Ballet. Although it may look 'relaxed' - everything she does is contrived - she's  trained as dancer from the age of 4. It's MEANT to look that way, its not lack of skill

[elisedance]

I like this discussion and the points you are making. Contray to your expectations I'm not in the least offended.

You really don't get it do you???
I don't think a person here cares if you are offended - indeed I think they would be rather pleased if you were, then perhaps you would understand that:
A) YOU ARE OFFENSIVE
B) PEOPLE HERE ARE TOO NICE TO JUST TELL YOU THAT

Well, all except one or two ...

[ZPomeroy]

Have you noticed he hasn't replied to what i said about his post in the 'standard routines or sequences you use' thread

[elisedance]

Have you noticed he hasn't replied to what i said about his post in the 'standard routines or sequences you use' thread

Its called selective hearing .......

[ZPomeroy]

LOL! Ur a funny one Elise

Zac

[SwingWaltz]

I like this discussion and the points you are making. Contray to your expectations I'm not in the least offended.

You really don't get it do you???
I don't think a person here cares if you are offended - indeed I think they would be rather pleased if you were, then perhaps you would understand that:
A) YOU ARE OFFENSIVE
B) PEOPLE HERE ARE TOO NICE TO JUST TELL YOU THAT

Well, all except one or two ...

Good call!

[dlgodud]

Have you noticed he hasn't replied to what i said about his post in the 'standard routines or sequences you use' thread

Its called selective hearing .......

I kind of noticed that it is indeed his approach for responses that he thinks he cannot argue and he is incorrect. 

[Some guy]

Please leave alba alone and let him keep posting  ... at least until we get a "daily funnies" thread that I can eat my pop tart and drink my orange juice to in the morning with a big smile and occasional guffaw to.       

[Some guy]

Incidentally, the observation that the lady's moverment were in any way 'uncontrolled' is completely wrong. Melissa Rutz, before becoming involved in WCS spent most of her life in Ballet. Although it may look 'relaxed' - everything she does is contrived - she's  trained as dancer from the age of 4. It's MEANT to look that way, its not lack of skill

So if someone were to ask her, "do you just look like a totally hopeless dancer or are you actually a totally hopeless dancer?", her answer would be, "I'm actually trying to look totally hopeless!"..? 

[albanaich]

I'm just utterly baffled that you find anything offensive.

Considering my Ballroom dance coach and I can have this conversation FACE to FACE without either of us getting  upset, I haven't the faintest idea what the problem is.

Ballroom dance different from Swing? Yeah. . . . .I would never guess

Is it offensive to explore what makes it different? Is it offensive to explore why a lot of improvisational dancers don't understand what it is about? Is it offensive that most Ballroom dances can't SEE what improvisational dancers are trying to do.

This is what free discussion is all about. . . . ..

It's not that I'm knocking ballroom dance - I do it 2 or 3 times week.

You seem to think that any attempt to define what Ballroom dance IS in relationship to other dances is someohow offensive.

Do you not want understand why the Bryan Watson appears 'grotesque' to other dancers? I'm certainly interested in why someone thinks Melssia Rutz is a bad dancer.

Doesn't this board exist for that kind of discussion???

What's the purspose of the board if all dancers do is tell each other what they already know  or want to know?

[Some guy]

Wow!! That's the best advice you could ever give yourself!

[albanaich]

So if someone were to ask her, "do you just look like a totally hopeless dancer or are you actually a totally hopeless dancer?", her answer would be, "I'm actually trying to look totally hopeless!

Well, given Melissa Rutz has been a professional ballet dancer as well as being dominant figure it West Cioast Swing one must say she only 'looks hopeless' as a dancer to Ballroom dancers.

I'm quite sure Melissa Rutz would be a leading figure in Ballroom dance - if she choose to focus on that.

One is reminder of the riot in the audience on the first performance of 'The Rite of Spring'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rite_of_Spring

Composer and conductor Leonard Bernstein, in his Six Talks at Harvard that he called The Unanswered Question, said of one passage, "That page is sixty years old, but it's never been topped for sophisticated handling of primitive rhythms...", and of the work as a whole, "...it's also got the best dissonances anyone ever thought up, and the best asymmetries and polytonalities and polyrhythms and whatever else you care to name

Different from the long and graceful lines of traditional ballet, arms and legs were sharply bent in Nijinsky's choreography. The dancers danced more from their pelvis than their feet, a style that later influenced Martha Graham. The "anti-ballet" aspects of the Nijinsky choreography (body components curled inward not opened outward, body pulled down not lifted up, steps heavy not light, focus on grotesqueness not elegance) as well as the controversial, violent, pagan, or primitivist thematic material, greatly influenced Hijikata and Tamano method Butoh.

The complex music and violent dance steps depicting fertility rites first drew catcalls and whistles from the crowd. At the start with the opening bassoon solo, the audience began to boo loudly due to the slight discord in the background notes behind the bassoon's opening melody. There were loud arguments in the audience between supporters and opponents of the work. These were soon followed by shouts and fistfights in the aisles. The unrest in the audience eventually degenerated into a riot. The Paris police arrived by intermission, but they restored only limited order. Chaos reigned for the remainder of the performance

It wasn't about the skill of the dancers, it wasn't about the skill of the muscians - it was about the inability of the audience to understand what the composer and choreographer were trying to achieve.

[albanaich]

Oh, and it would like a bit silly dancing a set sequence to a Waltz in 6/8 time that was was muscially complex becuase. .. . . . . get this, your dancing would bear not relationship to what happening in the music. ..  . . . .get it?

There are two solutions to that problem.

1. Change the music so it is strict tempo and fits the sequence you want to do

or

2. Change the way you dance, on the spot to fit the music.

This is what lies at the crux of this debate, between improvisational dance v ballroom

[elisedance]

I think you are loosing cred alba...

'crux of this debate'

It takes two to tango and I think all your dance partners went home...

[dlgodud]

You seem to think that any attempt to define what Ballroom dance IS in relationship to other dances is someohow offensive.

That's you who think like that and insist we all think like that. Don't you get it? Read whatever you write. Nobody tells here that it is offensive, but YOU keep saying we think like that.