partnerdanceonline.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 01, 2014, 04:17:03 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
A lot of people are visiting Smiley Smiley
Undecided Undecided but not many are posting....
please say hi Cheesy
116457 Posts in 1855 Topics by 221 Members
Latest Member: EVE_Dance
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  partnerdanceonline.com
|-+  Partner Dancing
| |-+  Partner Dances
| | |-+  Ballroom dance -advanced (Moderators: Rugby, cornutt, ZPomeroy)
| | | |-+  Music - to the follower
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Music - to the follower  (Read 1588 times)
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35006


ee


« on: January 09, 2010, 06:14:08 PM »

I thought about this while replyint to a great post by Samina in the staying on time topic. 

DSV loves to tell us that for a follower (or more correctly a 'reactor') 'the man is the music' meaning that we do not dance to the rhytm of the music but to the lead of the man.  If we are off time, then so be it but at least we are always together.

I have been happy wiht this analysis as I feel it has really improved my partnership abilities.  However, I have been thinking a bit more about the subject and I realize (er, maybe a duh monent OK , but bear with me) that there is mush more to music than just rhythm and that yes, I AM listening to the tone and expression of the piece if not to the timing.  Its a bit like separating your upper body from your lower one Wink but I think it is real.  My expression, my 'selling' (DSV) is strongly coloured by the specific piece that is being played.  Maybe I should have grasped this a long time ago but I'm throwing it out there for your input.....
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
TangoDancer
Open Bronze
*
Posts: 736



« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2010, 05:03:41 AM »

I believe that you are correct. There is a sentence in the "book" *shameless plug* that reads, "The feet dance to the beat; the body moves to the music." In this vain, the man mighht dance on/off the beat accordingly to his desire or ability, and the lady's "beat" is defined by her partner's. However, dance is a 2 part movement; steps and movement. After the lead/direction is given, it is not the lady's option, but her job to interpret that movement to the best of "her" desire or ability. The man's job of leading is unfinished until he follows the lady's interpretation to the end of the movement. Therefore, if he has something specific in mind that he wishes to create, he may do so at that time.

This is why I tell ladies all the time, that I wish to dance with them --not for them.
Logged

The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35006


ee


« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2010, 07:07:03 AM »

[puts more pennies in the airline ticket piggybank.... Wink]
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
cornutt
Administrator
Silver
****
Posts: 1845


« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2010, 11:47:16 AM »

I thought about this while replyint to a great post by Samina in the staying on time topic. 
that there is mush more to music than just rhythm and that yes, I AM listening to the tone and expression of the piece if not to the timing. 

If there's a grain of truth to what ALB keeps beating us over the head with, it's that the music is certainly there to be interpreted, and good dancers will make an effort to do so.  And it's true that some high-ranked dancers don't do it as well as they should.  But the mistake that ALB keeps making is assuming that interpreting the music isn't a part of ballroom dancing.  It is -- but it's not done in quite the same way as in club dancing, so if that's what you're looking for, you are likely to miss it. 

One thing that's different in the traveling dances (something the swing dancers don't have to worry about) is that even in a comp where most couples are dancing set routines, allowances still have to be made for floorcraft.  This means that you do not always have the luxury of being able to do what you want, when you want to do it.  You may miss an opportunity to really embellish a crescendo in the music because at that point you're having to execute a slip pivot to avoid crashing in to the couple who just cut you off.  C'est la vie; you just have to find another spot in the music and on the floor where you can do it. 

It's often said that the lead sets the timing and direction of the dance, but it's the follow who really has control over the style.  And she certainly can't do that, in any sensible way, if she isn't listening to the music.  And I've seen the audience reaction to a routine that is technically good but not danced in a style that goes with the music -- it leaves the audience saying "huh?"  They may not be able to put their finger on what was wrong, but they know something was.
Logged
skipper
Bronze
*
Posts: 376


« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2010, 11:08:12 PM »

I remember hearing about a couple that danced a major European comp - SHE had ear plugs in!!
Can you guess where she heard the music?? Yep, her partners body.
Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35006


ee


« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2010, 04:23:13 AM »

DSV recounted something similar a little while ago. 

The point of this topic was the question whether all elements of music should be felt through the man or whether one should distinguish the rhythm elements from the expressive ones.  That is it is imperative to follow the man's timing but should you also add expression from the particular piece that is being played??
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
SwingWaltz
Gold Star
***
Posts: 5772


« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2010, 07:20:06 AM »

What if the lady feel the music differently to that of how the man feels the music?  Roll Eyes
Logged
Lioness
Open Gold
***
Posts: 4322



WWW
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2010, 07:23:53 AM »

Then you have a problem.

Me and DP have this argument heaps, but not with dancing. We'll both get one piano piece, and play it so differently that we can't actually stand the other person's interpretation. It just sounds wrong.

But in dancing, well, we occasionally have differences in interpretation, but he gets told to copy me because 'the girl is good at that stuff'
Logged
cornutt
Administrator
Silver
****
Posts: 1845


« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2010, 10:17:51 AM »

But in dancing, well, we occasionally have differences in interpretation, but he gets told to copy me because 'the girl is good at that stuff'

Even more to the point: When the audience is looking for the style of the dance, they're going to be looking mostly at my partner, not me.  My lame answer to SW's question is, "it depends on what the definition of 'feel' is."  I've said before that I consider the basic timing to be my prerogative as a lead, and I expect my partner to stay with me on that.  However, when it comes to other elements of expression, such as how much to move or how "big" to make the dancing, if I find that my partner isn't doing it the same as me, I'm quite likely to go with her interpretation. 

I have to admit that the earplugs bit puzzles me.  Maybe they already know what music was going to be used?  It seems to me that if the lady isn't listening to the music, the conversational aspect of leading is mostly lost -- I have to "tell" her how to interpret the music, so she has nothing to "say" back to me.  And besides, I'm not a skilled enough lead to do all that!   Shocked
Logged
albanaich
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 236


« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2010, 05:17:53 PM »

I can't comment for Ballroom. .. . . . but in Swing dance and Argentine Tango, there is a definite . .. ''you are not listening to the music' physical communication.

You can feel it in her body. . . . .and its a major rush when you get to commuincate on that level.

Logged
samina
Silver
**
Posts: 1584



« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2010, 08:49:13 PM »

hmmm... this topic is reminding me a lot of the pleasure of sex... heh. in particular, the question: is that pleasure "local" or "non-local"? the more you are immersed in the experience, the less local the experience and the less identifiable are the separate components involved.  Cool

certainly, the same with dance, the music, and what what one feels, hears, and experiences in the mix of it all.
Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35006


ee


« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2010, 10:01:04 PM »

I raised the 'the man is the musc' concept to my coach and my partner and to my surprise they both disagreed!! [I had expected them to brush it off as obvious, but I truly underestimated them].  Their point was that in many steps the woman is actually leading so she has to be in time with the music.  Actually, I still don't agree with them because if I take any liberties they complain that I am 'rushing' 'too slow' 'in the way' etc etc.  Meaning of course that I am not following (or responding) at precisely the right time.  Hence, the man is still the music in my mind.

but to get back to the point here if the man is the music - or at least the rhytm - is there anything in the music that the woman is?  I thought about it tonight at practise and man or no man I dance very differently to different mood waltzes (for example).  There are some that I just get totally lost in - wish I would write them down but I think I'm not actually capapble of anythign but dancing to those...
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
cornutt
Administrator
Silver
****
Posts: 1845


« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2010, 11:01:23 PM »

but to get back to the point here if the man is the music - or at least the rhytm - is there anything in the music that the woman is? 

Pretty much everything except the rhythm, to at least some extent.  Melody, harmony, dynamics and emphasis, timbre and mood.  Even lyrics, if the dancers are sufficiently skilled.

And actually, there are dances where the follow gets to play with timing too, within certain parameters.  Standard is the least tolerant area there.  Salsa and WCS are at the other extreme; there, the follow actually has considerable latitude with timing at certain points.
Logged
TangoDancer
Open Bronze
*
Posts: 736



« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2010, 12:10:04 AM »

but to get back to the point here if the man is the music - or at least the rhytm - is there anything in the music that the woman is? 

Pretty much everything except the rhythm, to at least some extent.  Melody, harmony, dynamics and emphasis, timbre and mood.  Even lyrics, if the dancers are sufficiently skilled.

And actually, there are dances where the follow gets to play with timing too, within certain parameters. 

I really like this post. And, as I posted before, .......

I believe that you are correct. There is a sentence in the "book" *shameless plug* that reads, "The feet dance to the beat; the body moves to the music." In this vain, the man mighht dance on/off the beat accordingly to his desire or ability, and the lady's "beat" is defined by her partner's. However, dance is a 2 part movement; steps and movement. After the lead/direction is given, it is not the lady's option, but her job to interpret that movement to the best of "her" desire or ability. The man's job of leading is unfinished until he follows the lady's interpretation to the end of the movement. Therefore, if he has something specific in mind that he wishes to create, he may do so at that time.
Logged

The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!