Guy Problem

[samina]

yes, salsa over here in my neck of the woods is where the young-uns are. i don't believe AT or WCS is attracting them like salsa. lotsa young guys doing salsa. and that's what i always recommend to them if express interest...

[QPO]

we are trying to get the salsa dancers to our comps and then when they are there they can see the other styles and think hmm I wont mind giving that I try.  well thats the plan 

[albanaich]

Salsa is fairly big here too - but at all the events I've been too there has always been a large surplus of girls.

The guys and AT was a bit of a surprise to me too, but its definitely popular amongst the student age group. Here's a video of a demonstrtation/workshop in a local college by Jenny and Ricardo. They've done a lot to popularize it locallhy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgLP69cetpk

The Modern Jive people do showcases and workshops for all the partner dances (except ballroom!!!) they see it as benefiting the whole dance community to have as broad and base and wide a variety of dancing as possile. The more people dancing, the more dancers there are to come to their events

Jenny and Ricardo at MJ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4vhOq6wymM&NR=1

Jordan and Tatania (from the USA) doing WCS at an MJ event

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq_eaJqEwLE&feature=related

[albanaich]

Modern Jive (Ceroc/Leroc) is the glue that holds the whole dance scene (outside of Ballroom)  together in Scotland, and I would say the rest of the UK.

There's a very popular event next week in Edinburgh. . .

http://www.dancedemon.co.uk/redhotblue.html

It will be as information on the label says, Latin, Swing and MJ at the one event, on occasion I've even done AT at a MJ event. The dance langugage is  Modern Jive - but you can anything, and the music selection is deliberately broad so you can.

[QPO]

so how do we fix the problem? We know there is one how do you fix it

[albanaich]

I think the solution - from the Ballroom dance community's point of view - is to have a non-intimidating way of getting people up and dancing.

A lot of people locally get into dancing through Modern Jive and Salsa, which are relatively easy to learn. Then they discover that the better dancers on the floor do something like Argentine Tango or WCS, sometimes even Ballroom, Theire first dance is simple and easy to learn, they develop basic lead and follow skills, learn to keep time - and then when they have the confidence they move onto the more difficult dances.

There's just so much to learn in Ballroom, and to get through all the stuff, its broken down into steps and routines, which while they can make you look like you think you are dancing don't actually help with stuff like leading from the body, balance, timing or any of the other elements that come together to create dance.

Beginners should be taught a easy, simple dance like Modern Jive, Salsa, or Discofox (as they do in Germany) , before being faced with Standard or Latin.

In Germany the Ballroom studios use 'Discofox' (which is similar to Ceroc) to get young people dancing, then when they have the confidence introduce the formal Ballroom dances.. . . . and Ballroom very popular amongst German teens.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,1984889,00.html

If you can combine the simple dance with social interaction, as they do with Modern Jive, you'll have kids coming back for more.

You've got to be like a drug pusher - give them the soft easy stuff first, get them in the habit of cregularly oming to the dance studio for their fix - then you introduce them to the seriously addictive stuff.

[samina]

In my home studio, it is very non-intimidating to get beginners up and dancing. And more than once I have received a text from the owner saying "You coming? We've got more men than women tonight..." It is all about being welcoming, fun, and supportive.

I don't think the culture, expectations, and personal limitations that people bring with them to a studio can be ignored has having their impact on this issue. Some people just don't want to participate, some people just don't want to get over their insecurities or get out of their comfort zone.

Honestly, if someone is there and really does want to dance... let them rise to the occasion and dive in. That's as big a part of the journey as being welcomed into a community...

[albanaich]

Fair enough - but that doesn't explain why Salsa, MJ, Swing and AT can attract young guys but Ballroom can't.

[elisedance]

I think its a package - those dances are associated with music that is much closer to the young cultures than ballroom music.

[albanaich]

Argentine Tango? Salsa? Glen Miller and Benny Goodman?

When have they ever been associated with modern youth culture outside of Latin America?

[elisedance]

Argentine Tango? Salsa? Glen Miller and Benny Goodman?

When have they ever been associated with modern youth culture outside of Latin America?

the latter two in the war years I believe.  Salsa here for sure...

[albanaich]

Maybe I should have said 'contemporary' not modern.

Yes I can understand that Salsa music might be popular in the Spanish community in the USA, but you never hear either Salsa or Tango music on the radio in the UK. or Europe for that matter. I would guess its the same in the antipodies.

IMHO Music isn't the explanation for their popullarity.

I think the clue lies in the popularity of Ballroom Dance with teenagers in Germany and the use of Discofox by the German Studio's to teach a 'beginners dance'

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,1984889,00.html

Similarly the growth of West Coast Swing and Argentine Tango in the UK is closely related to them being 'pushed' by the Modern Jive community. as something for the better dancers to aspire to.

[cornutt]

Let me toss something out, that MC touched on back on the first page.  I'm not going to go deep into it because that would belong in the radical-opinions area, but...

Part of the problem is that dancing requires at least a certain amount of ladylike and gentlemanly behavior.  Problem is, there are large segments of society today in which being a gentleman is considered uncool, and some guys respond to the (dis)-incentives by going caveman.  And since dancing isn't a stereotypically alpha-male behavior, they avoid it like the plague. 

So it's a much bigger problem than dancing itself.  Dancing by itself can't fix it, but there are things we can do.  It helps some to point out things such as the fact that U.S. military officers are encouraged to learn to dance. 

[elisedance]

Is that a plus?   I mean how many guys actually have military officers as role models any more?  Thats not a rhetorical question, Im actually rather intereste, I suppose I've lost touch...

[MusicChica]

Let me toss something out, that MC touched on back on the first page.  I'm not going to go deep into it because that would belong in the radical-opinions area, but...

Part of the problem is that dancing requires at least a certain amount of ladylike and gentlemanly behavior.  Problem is, there are large segments of society today in which being a gentleman is considered uncool, and some guys respond to the (dis)-incentives by going caveman.  And since dancing isn't a stereotypically alpha-male behavior, they avoid it like the plague. 

So it's a much bigger problem than dancing itself.  Dancing by itself can't fix it, but there are things we can do.  It helps some to point out things such as the fact that U.S. military officers are encouraged to learn to dance. 

Well I for one would like to hear a more in-depth discussion of it...