picking a pro-am pro... what matters?

[elisedance]

Thats basically what we've been nibbling at for the last few posts.  Perhaps this just hits the limits of whats possible to judge in pro-am.  Ultimately it should just be a couple competing against another couple. 

Maybe the pros should be required to wear a paper bag over their heads.  Now THAT would be interesting...

[dlgodud]

Thats basically what we've been nibbling at for the last few posts.  Perhaps this just hits the limits of whats possible to judge in pro-am.  Ultimately it should just be a couple competing against another couple. 

Maybe the pros should be required to wear a paper bag over their heads.  Now THAT would be interesting...

Can we change to a mask instead of a paper bag? I think they need to lead or follow, most importantly they have to breath. 

[elisedance]

the paper bag has holes in it   Masks are OK - as long as they all have the same one on (which is the paper bag principle).

[MrsMoose]

WOWZERS so much food for thought.

Maybe a mask and only #s for the entries no names, till the winning couple is reveaed???

I think dancing judgeing is subjective. Like photography. My DH competes in amateur photography, that is his hobby. He has won awards, but overall I've been to judgeings, and they critique the picture at the same time and once, 3 judges, all of them criticized a picture, (not my DH) and the got boos from everyone. It was a beautiful moving picture, brought tears to my eyes, but it got the worse score of the night. People booded out loud, why? because the positioning of the subjects were off or something.

I also see the "favorites of the club" winning most of the time. In this case it's the club favorites or the one who made a $500 donation who got to be president of the club etc.

I also agree with all the points made. First, the analogy between a picasso and another painting, for sure I can't see what a pro in art can see.  One thing I've learned and I can feel it in my own dancing and see it is that there is a differenece between a higher level pro/champion when I dance. I've had both and I feel the difference big time. In his dancing and mine.   I don't know how to explain it. But I also think it's not fair to be judged on name only and rest on one laurels so to speak. 

[elisedance]

Its really the same issues that ice dancing struggled with.  There are partial fixes - for example ignoring the highest and lowest scores.  That gets rid of the most extreme opnions - but the downside is that it may also get rid of the most knowldegeable judges

[dlgodud]

Connection with the pro.

I speak this with my experience. This is very important for me because as a pro-Amer I don't have enough time adjust myself to connect with the pro.

[elisedance]

Connection with the pro.

I speak this with my experience. This is very important for me because as a pro-Amer I don't have enough time adjust myself to connect with the pro.

What do you mean by connection?

[MrsMoose]

Good question and I agree.

I do think it is important to connect with one's Pro

[dlgodud]

Ok!
Here is my experience about connection with all pros whom I had past.
1. The first teacher
    I started with him from scratch. At the beginning of my dancing, I just took group lessons from him probably for a year and half. So there is no such thing called connection existed. After a year and half, I started taking private lessons from him. At the  
    beginning of private lessons, I hardly knew if I pulled or pushed him too much. At the moment, the emotional connection with him was at zero level. Suddenly, the teacher started to complain that I was too strong and pulled him too much. The funny thing is
    he had actually never talked about this, I believe he tried to talk about connection, until the year passed. And, I was dacning exactly the same way I did a year ago. So why suddenly? I told him that he was getting softer and I was the same from beginning. He
    confessed that his new partner was very light and soft. So? Was I responsible to change? Still the emotional connection level was zero. And, he kept asking me to be softer. I got furustrated.I was taking 2-3 lessons per week and did I think it was enough time
    to talk about this connection all the time besides other things? No, I did not. With some other reasons, I quit.

2. The second teacheror
    Well, well, well...... In the first lesson with him, felt I could dance everything for his lead. I was emotionally very connected with him as well. I enjoyed and was in very happy stage of mind. I had him about 3 months, but during that period, my dancing was
    improved tremendously and even the teacher was surprised. He did mentioned a few times about me being strong, but I did not stressed out like I did with my first teacher. Most of time, we had fun and did not worry about me being fitted to the teacher.
    Unfortunately, the relationship ended. If you are curious, PM me. I will let you know the reason. He is away now, but when he comes back I am going to go back to him.

3. The third teacher
    I had him for a month. He was amazing. He could lead anyone probably. But, the emotional connection wasn't there. I felt that he was more likely a teacher, not a dance partner.


To be continued.....

[dlgodud]

4. The fourth teacher

    I had him approximately a month. A great dancer and teacher. He was a little bit strong for me, but I could manage that part. He did not smile while we were dancing, actually either no facial expression or some expression for himself. Nothing was connected  
    emotionally. I felt we danced separately instead of dancing together. The lesson was not fun and I felt aweful. I did not want to go to lessons. I could not dance with someone who did not have an expression. Wished he smiled a little bit, but it did not happen.

What I was going to mention is that it was very important for me to find someone whom I could connect physically and emotionally. The reasons are:

1. I did not worry about leading and following issues that got on my nerve so much and sometime I felt I was shrinking in front of my teacher and could not dance in my 100%.
2. When I was emotionally connected with a teacher, the lessons were very fun and enjoyable. I improved a lot.
3. Do we really have enough time to work on connection with our teachers if we take 2-3 lessons per week?

[MusicChica]

I have to say, I'm so grateful to have a pro that has such similar ideas about dance as mine.  I spent way too long with pros that weren't compatible with my vision, and it's just so nice to have a teacher that I know will be as enthusiastic about my ideas as I am.  Not just stylistic ideas about dance itself, but showcases, costuming, the whole works.  I mean, you can learn something from any teacher (provided they've got the ability to transmit information to you), but the potential just increases exponentially with a pro you're very compatible with.

[elisedance]

Not to mention making the whole thing thoroughly enjoyable   So many women spend a fortune to dance with a miserable parasite.  Yes, i do mean that I have seen pros that abuse, cheat and humiliate.  I suppose there may be a limited market for that but in most cases the clients seem to get sucked in and can't get out - rather like an abusive partnership...

[MrsMoose]

Not to mention making the whole thing thoroughly enjoyable   So many women spend a fortune to dance with a miserable parasite.  Yes, i do mean that I have seen pros that abuse, cheat and humiliate.  I suppose there may be a limited market for that but in most cases the clients seem to get sucked in and can't get out - rather like an abusive partnership...

Not disputing that. I never had it that bad but I heard of 2 women being hit by a Pro that I had but before my time.  My 2nd one actually.  A few people told me that story so I am assuming it is not false.

He was not nice to me.  I saw a Pro get nasty right on the floor of a comp and the same one count with his fingers in her eyes on the floor of a comp (he would be so fired).

My question is if the Pro is not the owner of the studio why not ask to change Pros? Is that not possible

[MrsMoose]

Anyone know of Nicoli Philipenchuck and his parents Igor and Polina Philipenchuck?

[MusicChica]

Anyone know of Nicoli Philipenchuck and his parents Igor and Polina Philipenchuck?

EM?  You around?

No, really, MM--PDO member emeralddancer is at their studio, Atlantic Ballroom in Baltimore.  If she doesn't pop up here shortly, shoot her a PM.