partnerdanceonline.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 27, 2014, 08:10:58 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
A lot of people are visiting Smiley Smiley
Undecided Undecided but not many are posting....
please say hi Cheesy
116515 Posts in 1857 Topics by 223 Members
Latest Member: dancewithmetoronto
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  partnerdanceonline.com
|-+  Partner Dancing
| |-+  Dancesport
| | |-+  Pro-Am (Moderators: Rugby, cornutt)
| | | |-+  picking a pro-am pro... what matters?
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 Print
Author Topic: picking a pro-am pro... what matters?  (Read 6909 times)
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35037


ee


« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2010, 06:26:21 PM »

Sounds like you are onto a winner.... Wink
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
dlgodud
Open Bronze
*
Posts: 773



« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2010, 06:38:17 PM »

Hope it works. Wink
Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35037


ee


« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2010, 09:23:13 PM »

Well, if not at least you have choices there Smiley
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
MrsMoose
Bronze
*
Posts: 271


« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2010, 08:16:02 AM »

So my first teacher came back from vacation and I took his classes on Monday and yesterday. It seemed we both enjoyed dancing, not very awkward. I guess it is because we get to know a little bit more about each other and feel comfortable?? Anyway it was not bad at all. Will take a few lessons and see how it goes.  Smiley

Sounds good.  Does he have the 'cred' you need for competition?  Try to evaluate his limits now - I find what pro-am dancers never seem to do is to realize that each coach has a teaching limit and you have to be prepared to move on when you get anywhere close to it - all teachers can only teach up to some fraction of what they know.  Once you get close to their knowledge limit the level of training starts to drop off. 

Can you elaborate more on this or explain please.  I'm a bit confused, you say they can only teach oup to some fraction and that you have to move on. What if you can't move on???

Seriously, if I had to move on, there is maybe one other person right now who would be higher up than my teacher, he is in the top two as far as skill and expertise. And that one may  a)not take new students, b)is very very far from
Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35037


ee


« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2010, 09:20:50 AM »

Well, I should qualify.  The pro has to be at a certain level to make it to the finals - but need not be the national champion (though it would not hurt).  I noticed at OSB that some women who clearly would not stand much chance of making it to the semis with an excellent pro were in the finals with a world-class one.  I know, its the partnership and all that but I think that the dance-world stature of the pro, and not necessarily dancing 'on the day' is a major factor.
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
MrsMoose
Bronze
*
Posts: 271


« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2010, 09:26:37 AM »

So it's his stature that is needed at a certain level?

I didn't think the Pros were judged or are the judged at OSB on the top tier as any Am/Am or Pro/Pro couple??? Are both judged??

I'm sorry I may be dancing for a couple of years but all this comp stuff has me extrmeely confused as does the Pro/Am thing.

I mean, to me, if the Pro is not great he can't make the Am look great. Does that make sense??

And how does one move on?? I am not saying you are wrong, I can understand that, but how does one move on if there is nothing or almost nothing to move on to in their given area, do they just stop competting, or not try to improve??

It's all so confusing.
Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35037


ee


« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2010, 09:37:02 AM »

In the single dances the pro is NOT judged, its just you against the other women.  However, in the multidance events pro-am couples are judged as a couple.  Thus, if your competition is dancing with a previous national champion he has either drubbed your pro or your pro hasn't even been on the same floor.  This definitely gives the other girl an advantage Smiley 

There is another factor too I think.  The judges will have known and judged that pro for many years and will be unwilling to rank him at a low level - at the very least they will want to see him in the finals, even if only as a matter of respect.  Obviously, if his partner is really bad this is all moot but we are talking about edge - and in the semi- and finals edge is it.

With respect to moving on IMO the really important factor is not, however, really the competetive edge, its whether you are still learning well from your pro.  IF he has a lot to teach and you find that he has answers to most problems that you come up against why change?  You are still improving to his level.  If, however, you start to feel that his teaching is topping out - that is he is unable to get you past key problems or if there is something too familiar with his message you may be reaching the end of the learning road.  At that point you have to decide what your goals are: continuing to dance with a partner that you might grow with (assuming he is open to learning still - unfortunately, many pros seem reluctant to continue learning themselves) or find someone else. 

One possibility is to move to an AM partner at that point - hopefully you have become good enough that you are locally competetive for an AM (thats what I did).
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
MrsMoose
Bronze
*
Posts: 271


« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2010, 09:48:24 AM »

WOW, thank you EE, a lot of food for thought.

All you say makes sense, and in all honesty, somewhat scary at the same time at least to me.

But I understand now what you mean. Thanks for taking the time to explain in detail  I do appreciate
Logged
dlgodud
Open Bronze
*
Posts: 773



« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2010, 01:23:39 PM »



I mean, to me, if the Pro is not great he can't make the Am look great. Does that make sense??



Not necessarily I think. If your pro is good at teaching or good at dancing, or both. The good dancer does not automatically qualify in the good teacher category.
Logged
dlgodud
Open Bronze
*
Posts: 773



« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2010, 01:26:13 PM »



With respect to moving on IMO the really important factor is not, however, really the competetive edge, its whether you are still learning well from your pro.  IF he has a lot to teach and you find that he has answers to most problems that you come up against why change?  You are still improving to his level.  If, however, you start to feel that his teaching is topping out - that is he is unable to get you past key problems or if there is something too familiar with his message you may be reaching the end of the learning road.  At that point you have to decide what your goals are: continuing to dance with a partner that you might grow with (assuming he is open to learning still - unfortunately, many pros seem reluctant to continue learning themselves) or find someone else. 


Agree with this. And you will know when you need to change your teacher.
By the way, I've just ended my pro-am relationship with my teacher because of the reason EE explained. Now, I want to go back to my second teacher, but he will not available in 2 months.
Logged
MusicChica
Intermediate Silver
*
Posts: 1325


« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2010, 07:16:21 PM »

Oh, pro-am is so political.  It's just the nature of the beast.  Just like you pointed out, EE, a person can buy their way into the finals by dancing with a world-class pro (WCP).  And when I, for example, am dancing against those students, I have to work that much harder for my placements.  With my midlevel pro (albeit a talented one), I don't just have to dance as well as or slightly better than WCP's student to outmark them--I have to dance significantly better than them in such a way that the judges can't ignore to get them to place me ahead of WCP's student.  They're just automatically going to mark WCP's student highly out of habit.  Now, how and why that habit gets created is another argument, but the fact of the matter is, a pro's stature absolutely does matter in pro-am placements, even at lower levels when the student is only supposed to be judged on their own merit and not as a couple.
Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35037


ee


« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2010, 07:38:42 PM »

Well, we have to be careful here - the problem is that if you take lessons from a top pro you might just get better training and deserve better placement.   Not saying its always the case but it often is....

Which goes full circle - and which is why its so important to set your goals - what exactly do you want to achieve???
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
MusicChica
Intermediate Silver
*
Posts: 1325


« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2010, 12:16:35 AM »

You might.  Even that's debatable, though, when the top pro's dancing out of their style and some of the other "lesser" pros are in their preferred style.  But you said yourself it's not always the case.  I've seen it happen all too often that somebody else on the floor danced better, but the "famous" pro's student was marked higher.  But my post wasn't about clarifying your own goals, it was about the characteristics of pro-am as a competitive option.

In the single dances the pro is NOT judged, its just you against the other women.  However, in the multidance events pro-am couples are judged as a couple.  Thus, if your competition is dancing with a previous national champion he has either drubbed your pro or your pro hasn't even been on the same floor.  This definitely gives the other girl an advantage Smiley 

There is another factor too I think.  The judges will have known and judged that pro for many years and will be unwilling to rank him at a low level - at the very least they will want to see him in the finals, even if only as a matter of respect.  Obviously, if his partner is really bad this is all moot but we are talking about edge - and in the semi- and finals edge is it.

We're talking about the same thing here--a pro's status matters in pro-am, and that it can be very political.  Not saying whether it's right or wrong, not saying anything about how any one person should approach it or try to handle it, just that that's the way it is.
Logged
elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
*****
Posts: 35037


ee


« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2010, 01:00:36 AM »

Its probably true in all sports that are judged subjectively - but how do you separate the actions from the person?  I mean if you had an art competition and picasso entered you would have to worry that even if mediocre to your eye, his painting may have something tha tyou could not see Cheesy
Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
dlgodud
Open Bronze
*
Posts: 773



« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2010, 01:40:37 AM »

I think what MusicChica try to explain here is more applicable to scholarship events. As we already know, in scholarhip events, they are judged as a couple.
Imagine that there is a very famous pro with a so-so student. And also there is a so-so pro with an excellent student.  For me, well, it is just my imagination, but I have to say the couple with the so-so pro and an excellent student has to be in the final.
Well, people say that top pros could cover up their students' faults and make them look good, but how much they can cover? I believe they have to dance down significantly to be able to look like a couple. But, on the other hand, another couple probably could dance in their maximum capacity.
If the top pro and the so-so student couple advance to final or place higher than another couple, I think what they say to us, especially in scholarship events is a lie. They don't judge as a couple, they just judge pros.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!