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Author Topic: Coaching is it Equal- Can it be Equal  (Read 1227 times)
QPO
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« on: January 15, 2010, 07:54:20 PM »

This was raised on the cost of going pro-am

When you have a lesson with your partner, who does the coach work on. It appears the coach tends to work on the man more than the women, is that your experience.

If you are not a married couple and you both have to pay your contribution to the lesson, do you feel cheated if that happens?
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QPO
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2010, 07:57:01 PM »

One place that we went to the couple that were giving lessons had come back from UK where they had had lessons, she commented that in one lesson that her partner was the focus of attention for the whole lesson, she just had to do her thing in the corner.

In one way I understand that as I believe the man needs to be strong in the partnership as he is responsible for timing etc. But I would like to think they would have given me something to work on on my own as well. Roll Eyes
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Lioness
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2010, 08:48:11 PM »

In our lessons, whoever needs the most work gets the most attention. Quite often the coaches will split up, and he will work with me, and she will work with him. That way when we get put back together, we both know what it should feel like.

I think it will never be truly equal. There will always be one side of the partnership that needs slightly more work than the other. Those roles might change - one week the man may need more work, perhaps on his timing and lead. Then the next week the girl might need to catch up slightly, and work on fitting style with footwork, or something like that.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 08:50:47 PM by Lioness » Logged
samina
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2010, 09:23:11 PM »

took weekly coaching for just a couple months with an amateur lesson/practice partner. coach was kindly very mindful of being fair about time spent with each of us... part of the lessons were with each other, and then we'd each get a bit of solo time for whatever it is we needed help with.

never felt there was any inequity in the arrangement at all.
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cornutt
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2010, 09:51:25 PM »

When you have a lesson with your partner, who does the coach work on. It appears the coach tends to work on the man more than the women, is that your experience.

I've noticed that, in our lessons and in others.  It can become a trap.  I think that at least sometimes it happens more because the coach and the couple fall into a habit.  And it can be counterproductive, because the partner who is getting all the attention becomes self-conscious and the other partner feels ignored.  That started to happen to us once several years ago, and we wound up taking apart lessons for about a year.  It was good for both of us because she got more attention plus the opportunity to take from a male instructor (our main instructor is female).  As for me, it freed me from having to worry about her during lessons, which I needed at the time because I had hit a wall with my dancing, and I needed to be able to change a bunch of things up to get past that. 

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elisedance
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2010, 05:40:58 AM »

...it can be counterproductive, because the partner who is getting all the attention becomes self-conscious and the other partner feels ignored. 

I'm well aware of the ignored part (as the follower) but you raise a very interesting point that I had not thought of - that the partner getting the atention could start feeling self-conscious or even like they are inferior because they have to have all the attention.

I would be interested if any other leads feel that way when the lessons tend to be directed towards them - perhaps catsmeow or someguy will see this and comment....
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QPO
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2010, 08:53:31 AM »

As I mentioned previously , I wonder if that is because the man has to be able to lead a women around the floor. Mostly in the  lesson it is about shaping for me. Perhaps once he has fixed up the man issues they then work on the lady... Roll Eyes
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elisedance
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2010, 09:23:45 AM »


As I mentioned previously , I wonder if that is because the man has to be able to lead a women around the floor. Mostly in the  lesson it is about shaping for me. Perhaps once he has fixed up the man issues they then work on the lady... Roll Eyes

I think you missed the point Q - and its one I really want discussed by a lead...

...it can be counterproductive, because the partner who is getting all the attention becomes self-conscious and the other partner feels ignored. 

I'm well aware of the ignored part (as the follower) but you raise a very interesting point that I had not thought of - that the partner getting the atention could start feeling self-conscious or even like they are inferior because they have to have all the attention.

I would be interested if any other leads feel that way when the lessons tend to be directed towards them - perhaps catsmeow or someguy will see this and comment....
...it can be counterproductive, because the partner who is getting all the attention becomes self-conscious and the other partner feels ignored. 
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cornutt
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2010, 09:58:56 AM »


I'm well aware of the ignored part (as the follower) but you raise a very interesting point that I had not thought of - that the partner getting the atention could start feeling self-conscious or even like they are inferior because they have to have all the attention.

That's exactly what started happening with me, which is why I mentioned it.
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elisedance
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2010, 01:23:49 PM »

Well, you've opened my eyes a bit - I had not thought about that from my DP's perspective.  It must be worse for him since I take a lot of privates with the same coach in addition to our joint lessons. 

[I do like PDO Cheesy]
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Rugby
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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2010, 08:00:42 PM »

I think there is a catch-22.  On one hand the person getting the attention, we'll say the lead, can feel that they are inferior to their partner because the coach appears to be constantly working on them.  The follow can also get to think they are superior because in the lesson they are not worked on as much so they must be okay.  Or as my DP says, according to how much time he gets worked on compared to me they must think the sun shines out of my a**.  Of course we know that the follow can only do as much as the lead is able so obviously the lead has to be worked on first.   The catch is that the lead, since he is gaining knowledge ahead of the follow, can start to feel superior to the follow, who has had to put her learning somewhat on hold for his sake.  Now, instead of allowing her the time to catch up he becomes disgruntled that she has not "kept up" and looks for a more "equal" partner.  Take everything I said above and switch it around for latin.

I also find that the amount of time given to each depends on if we are with a female or male instructor or if we are doing latin or standard.

As for myself, when my partner is being worked on I take the time to learn his part as well.  It helps me to understand what he is doing and how we effect each other.  It allows me to do my part better and it is better than working on my own or just waiting for them to call me over.
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2010, 03:45:42 PM »

Some coaches tend to work on guys more, they believe the guy need to be fixed up before they can make the overall picture look good. With each of my partner/ tryouts, Katusha mainly working on the guy, from frame, posture to movement, everything, Arunas opposite, mainly working on ladies, maybe he assumes Katusha fixed guy already so the girl needs more time for coaching?

Some other visiting coaches also work mostly on guys. Some guys don’t like to be excessively worked on, they feel was like an insult that they appear to be worse than their partners. Some guys don’t mind.

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QPO
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« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2010, 05:33:21 AM »

how is the hunt going? Any Prospects?
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cornutt
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« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2010, 10:10:43 AM »

I think there is a catch-22.  On one hand the person getting the attention, we'll say the lead, can feel that they are inferior to their partner because the coach appears to be constantly working on them.  The follow can also get to think they are superior because in the lesson they are not worked on as much so they must be okay. 

In our case, it wasn't that so much, it was that while I was being worked on, my DW was standing off to the side thinking, "Hey, I have issues too, when do I get a few minutes?"  Additionally, when I learn something, I need a lot of reps to get it set into muscle memory, or else I'll lose it.  So my DW started to feel like a tackling dummy. 
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standarddancer
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« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2010, 05:16:35 PM »

how is the hunt going? Any Prospects?

took a lesson with one of the prospects with katusha, he's pro, more experienced than me, even had same English coaches as Arunas/Katusha before; regardless Katusha still spent 80% of lessons correcting him; no matter what experience level of my partners/tryouts, her primary focus is the guy; She's really excellent in correcting guy issues too, so good in explaining movement + structure; She only starts spending time on the girl when she feels the guy is doing mostly what she wants. Towards end of lesson, I was afraid the guy being intimated by being worked on extensively so I told him, "don't worry, just wait until Arunas comes back, he'll only work on me, and treat you as if you don't exist..." lol...

For top coach couple like this, I usually request lessons of 2 in a roll, 1 with her, 1 with him, so both partners could be worked on.
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