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Author Topic: Isolations  (Read 2569 times)
albanaich
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 236


« on: January 12, 2010, 04:04:25 PM »

It's taken me a while to 'crack' them, but the trick turned out to practise them while driving. For ages I thought nothin was happening, but in the last six mnoths its really come together.

Anybody else have difficulty with isolations?
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elisedance
Administrator
Blackpool Finalist
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Posts: 34987


ee


« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2010, 05:27:56 PM »

I have no idea what they are - can you please explain so that I can see if this is the best place for the topic?
thanks
ee
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MusicChica
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1325


« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2010, 05:39:07 PM »

We've had a similar discussion before: http://partnerdanceonline.com/index.php?topic=889.0
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elisedance
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ee


« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2010, 07:18:11 PM »

thanks MC
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
albanaich
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 236


« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2010, 05:35:30 PM »

An Isolation is the ability to control one movement of the body independent of another. it's essential for the 'hip rolls' in Ballroom Latin. If you are a fan of Bryan Watson you will see 'Isolations' carried to the extreme.

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catsmeow
Bronze
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Posts: 339


« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2010, 08:48:32 PM »

yep I have a lot of trouble with isolations
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samina
Silver
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Posts: 1584



« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2010, 08:55:48 PM »

as i mentioned in the other thread, gyrotonic is a great aid to enhance isolations. better than anything i've ever done. including lots of isolation work in the car, as alba has alluded to.

in the past year, during which funds have disallowed me from continuing gyro training, i started doing something on my own which, for lack of a better word, i've called "ballroom qigong", and this helped me enormously to loosen up my articulations and improve my isolations. slow movements activating the meridians of the body, especially in ways that cross the center lines.

thanks for the reminder... i've fallen away from this kind of practice in the last couple months and crave getting back to it.
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cdnsalsanut
Bronze
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Posts: 256



« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2010, 12:51:00 AM »

I'm very interested.

Im just starting to work on using my whole body to move. For example in striking the front leg forward in cha cha, I start with compressing my shoulder in order to draw the opposite leg under me, then using the opposite momentum to strike the opposing leg forward.

It's all new to me.

As a salsero I am often accused of being "ballroom" because I guess they see my frame as stiff and upright. Body rolls, head rolls, isolating the back and shoulders, all these things are very apparent in the salsa and wcs community here in Toronto but I'm just starting to try to incorporate them into my dancing.

Any video sources to go looksee would be appreciated.
csn
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bookworm
Intermediate Silver
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Posts: 1242


« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2010, 01:29:18 AM »

Yep me too , I have major trouble with isolations  Sad
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albanaich
Intermediate Bronze

Posts: 236


« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2010, 03:57:00 PM »

The difficulty with isolations is that when you start you simply don't know how to move your body that way. It's not something you can be taught directly.

It's a purely physical thing.

You have to make your body do something its never done before.

The car worked for me because it more less holds your arms and legs still. The only way you can dance or move to the music is to move your body independentn of your legs and arms.

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catsmeow
Bronze
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Posts: 339


« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2010, 08:40:56 PM »

My partner and I started work on isolations just as we finished bronze and started silver syllabus. We were aware of the movement but didnt know how to produce it properly. By gold both of us were filling out the beats using compression through the sides and back to propel us forward and back. Only recently in prechamp training has the use of the shoulders been emphasized and then, as yet, a technique to exaggerate size and movement. Any input here is appreciated.
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Rugby
Moderator
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Posts: 3585



« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2010, 09:15:53 PM »

Isolation, as you call it, is one of the cornerstones of my dancing and my riding.  My partner and I were introduced to the concept at the end of bronze, start of silver by a wonderful lady that used to compete for Poland in Latin.  She would drill us on the use of the muscles to create movement and I have used/worked on it since for both latin and standard.  I credit her solely for the reason for our success in latin, even against the young people half our age.

I actually originally learned it in dressage from some of the old european masters I trained with, for to be able to ride the horse "quietly" you need to be able to have control of the muscles in your body and coordinate each group in relation to the horse's, and the movement you wish to achieve.  These are the riders that look as though they are doing nothing but in reality are selectively using different muscles groups to cause a reaction in the horse that creates the action desired.  The exact same thing goes for dancing.

Our bodies use isolation all the time in everyday tasks but when the brain gets involved (in the way) that's when things can get screwed up and we take a simple action and make it far more difficult.  If you want to isolate a certain group think of a task that you do every day that uses those muscles.  If you want to use the obliques or abdominal muscles sweep the floor and you will notice that you isolate these muscles on for this task.  Change and sweep with the other arm and you will now use these muscles but on the other side.  Feel how you use them then you can recreate it.  To steady the lower back and use those muscles (along with some of the upper abdominal) bear down like your giving birth.  If you have not given birth then pretend you are really, really constipated and are bearing down to go while sitting on the toilet.  Okay, okay but it works and you can feel how you can activate these muscles.  Just a few examples but you will feel what I mean. 
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
Dora-Satya Veda
Gold Star
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Posts: 6871


« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2010, 09:19:10 PM »

Ah, you are discovering the "Rule of Turn". Have fun turning all the bit of pieces of the body. Cheesy

Remember this is one of those rule you learn and then forget   Tongue   Cheesy
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"As we understand more things, everthing is becoming simpler"

Edward Teller
Rugby
Moderator
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Posts: 3585



« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2010, 10:04:32 PM »

I think of compression as like loading a slinky then releasing it to create the power and movement.  The sad thing I am seeing is that instructors either don't teach or don't know how to teach body mechanics.  Instead they teach fancy choreography and arm movements, or, as I like to call it, all flash and no substance.

What I am really noticing at the comps is that the competitors think that if they can dance the choreography then they are that level.  Little do they know that they are dancing silver and gold choreography with pre-bronze and bronze technique.  This allows them to think that they are ready to move to the next level when they have barely scratched the surface of truly learning the use of the body.  Perhaps by teachers selling the students the Emperor's clothes they are hoping that they can keep the student happy, which means more lessons, but in truth they are robbing their students not only of their money but the opportunity to learn how to use their body properly, and their students think they are what they are not.

When I have watched at the competitions  I see no use of the back muscles (Erector spinae muscle group) or rib/spine/hip connector muscles  (Quadratus lumborum) outside of by accident, nor rolling through the feet and so forth, which tells me that they have little proper training or technique.  It is all fake and anyone with a good eye can see it a mile away.  I have spoken to some of the judges and they too have noticed in the last couple of years that this is happening and complain that it is dropping the level of quality dancing but just hope that things will eventually change.

Sure it takes much longer to move up but for me it has been the real pot of gold to learn, and for sure still learning, the use of proper technique, which encompasses isolation.
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
Rugby
Moderator
Gold
****
Posts: 3585



« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2010, 10:07:27 PM »

Ah, you are discovering the "Rule of Turn". Have fun turning all the bit of pieces of the body. Cheesy

Remember this is one of those rule you learn and then forget   Tongue   Cheesy

Yes, expecially when I have about two brain cells left to my name.
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Everyone tries to rush up through the syllabus levles and think once they are at the top they have arrived.  What they don't realize is that by doing this it is like skimming through a book, you may get the gist but you will never understand the story.
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