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Author Topic: waiting - the essence of following  (Read 11831 times)
Some guy
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« Reply #75 on: September 30, 2010, 01:43:01 PM »

his leading words of advice were, "it really doesn't matter so much that you get it "right" in preparing her physically for what comes next. what matters *most of all* is your *intention*... you have to just feel it and *know* that it will all come out fine, that she will be where you need her to be, and you for her. cognitive thought is valuable only for training purposes, but it is too slow in the act of dancing... it must be switched off so that your non-cognitive mind can take over, and it does that much more quickly than if you were to take the time to think & prepare about such details as how to give her information about what comes next." or he said something to that effect... Tongue
This couldn't be more right in my opinion.  My coach had me close my eyes, touch, not hold, my partner's palm, and just imagine a Rumba basic into fan, then told me to open my eyes, my partner was waiting for me, at the end of the fan.  My partner told me it's the best lead she has ever felt and it's the best she was able to dance the step with her whole body free to dance and the dreaded hand to hand hold doing nothing to throw her off.  My coach has also had me stand in contra check position, then just "intend" the lady to stretch out her position as much as she could.  In my arms, I felt my partner stretching out and creating the biggest contra check line I've ever seen her do.  Nothing physical.  Pure intention.  I've started doing this with the University Clubs I teach and they're at first totally bewildered at what they just experienced, but then, like all kids, they take it and run with it.  Some of the leads there  can suck me into a fan and underarm turn if I stand within about 3 feet of them.  Intention is POWERFUL.  However, like all acts of free will, it can happen only if the target of intention allows it.  I think this is as much as we've ever fleshed out the subject of the "weightless lead" on this forum.  I guess more people are ready for it. 
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 01:45:20 PM by Some guy » Logged
drj
Bronze
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Posts: 334



« Reply #76 on: October 06, 2010, 06:16:00 AM »


his leading words of advice were, "it really doesn't matter so much that you get it "right" in preparing her physically for what comes next. what matters *most of all* is your *intention*... you have to just feel it and *know* that it will all come out fine, that she will be where you need her to be, and you for her. cognitive thought is valuable only for training purposes, but it is too slow in the act of dancing... it must be switched off so that your non-cognitive mind can take over, and it does that much more quickly than if you were to take the time to think & prepare about such details as how to give her information about what comes next." or he said something to that effect... Tongue

What he said! I bow down and adore!

Interesting that your friend is primarily interested in social dancing, b/c my experience of social dance leaders tends to the opposite. They are thinking so hard about what's coming next that they rush, and there's no time to respond to them (so much for "waiting, the essence of following"), or they are late, and it's too late to respond to them, or they change their minds, and there's no way to respond to them. Sigh. And I *want* to respond to them. Well, time for me to do more work on learning to read their body language, and read it sooner.
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ancora imparo
elisedance
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« Reply #77 on: October 06, 2010, 06:53:54 AM »


his leading words of advice were, "it really doesn't matter so much that you get it "right" in preparing her physically for what comes next. what matters *most of all* is your *intention*... you have to just feel it and *know* that it will all come out fine, that she will be where you need her to be, and you for her. cognitive thought is valuable only for training purposes, but it is too slow in the act of dancing... it must be switched off so that your non-cognitive mind can take over, and it does that much more quickly than if you were to take the time to think & prepare about such details as how to give her information about what comes next." or he said something to that effect... Tongue

What he said! I bow down and adore!

Interesting that your friend is primarily interested in social dancing, b/c my experience of social dance leaders tends to the opposite. They are thinking so hard about what's coming next that they rush, and there's no time to respond to them (so much for "waiting, the essence of following"), or they are late, and it's too late to respond to them, or they change their minds, and there's no way to respond to them. Sigh. And I *want* to respond to them. Well, time for me to do more work on learning to read their body language, and read it sooner.

thanks for citing that drj - its terrific sam.  And the initiator has to do the same thing - get to the point where even floorcraft is on automatic pilot.  The more that can become automatic the better ...
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Bordertangoman
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« Reply #78 on: October 06, 2010, 11:07:33 AM »



. cognitive thought is valuable only for training purposes, but it is too slow in the act of dancing...

And this was originally said by Estragon to Vladimir....... Wink
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”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
drj
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Posts: 334



« Reply #79 on: October 07, 2010, 12:10:11 AM »



. cognitive thought is valuable only for training purposes, but it is too slow in the act of dancing...

And this was originally said by Estragon to Vladimir....... Wink

lolz

BTW, I never thought of dance as a Godot moment before. You've just opened up an entire new line of thinking. Thanks.
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ancora imparo
Bordertangoman
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« Reply #80 on: October 07, 2010, 06:24:55 AM »



. cognitive thought is valuable only for training purposes, but it is too slow in the act of dancing...

And this was originally said by Estragon to Vladimir....... Wink

lolz

BTW, I never thought of dance as a Godot moment before. You've just opened up an entire new line of thinking. Thanks.

Thank goodness someone gets my obscure jokes........

you've made my day! Grin
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”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
drj
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Posts: 334



« Reply #81 on: October 07, 2010, 07:56:45 AM »



. cognitive thought is valuable only for training purposes, but it is too slow in the act of dancing...

And this was originally said by Estragon to Vladimir....... Wink

lolz

BTW, I never thought of dance as a Godot moment before. You've just opened up an entire new line of thinking. Thanks.

Thank goodness someone gets my obscure jokes........

you've made my day! Grin

As you've made mine. Ain't it grand when you find a new kindred spirit?

BTW, Terry Pratchett I don't get. But Godot jokes I can do.
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ancora imparo
Bordertangoman
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« Reply #82 on: October 07, 2010, 07:58:50 AM »

Terry pratchett is satire, with layers of references and puns, not always laugh out load but funny-clever.
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”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
drj
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Posts: 334



« Reply #83 on: October 07, 2010, 05:51:09 PM »

Terry pratchett is satire, with layers of references and puns, not always laugh out load but funny-clever.

Oh, I've read Pratchett. I just don't like him enough to have read more than one book. Too self-conscious for my taste.

BOT: the Godot reference got me thinking about waiting, and how the dynamic between a lead and follow is essentially a series of waits. I wait for him to tell me where/when/howmuch; he waits for me to respond and sell it; I wait for him, etc, etc., and like the play, the waiting is endless. OK, maybe I'm stretching this a bit and lead-and-follow is not like waiting for Godot.  Wink  But if I want real solid closure, I have to wait for the music to stop.
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ancora imparo
TangoDancer
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« Reply #84 on: October 14, 2010, 01:53:39 AM »

^ Oh, that d&*% ball and ruler thing, again. Good stuff.
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The most beautiful part of the dance is often found in between the steps... and in the movement within the stillness.
elisedance
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« Reply #85 on: February 21, 2012, 06:17:54 AM »

[Transferred from the Brag topic]

another good class, descending into mayhem and mirth and some nice dancing..teaching 'suspension' which I believe ballroomers call hesitation. Is that right ED?

I think here we refer to just 'waiting'.  Something men complain that we make them do in life and then complain we don't do enough in dance...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 07:37:22 AM by elisedance » Logged

If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
Bordertangoman
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« Reply #86 on: February 21, 2012, 06:26:14 AM »

another good class, descending into mayhem and mirth and some nice dancing..teaching 'suspension' which I believe ballroomers call hesitation. Is that right ED?

I think here we refer to just 'waiting'.  Something men complain that we make them do in life and then complain we don't do enough in dance...

does your 'waiting' happen as a collection of feet and uplifting of posture ( ie pretty much straight legged)??

i think it may be an overlooked part of tango teaching..
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”We need a witness to our lives.  There's a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, you're promising to care about everything.  The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. "
QPO
reg mods
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Posts: 20807


Adelaide South Australia


« Reply #87 on: February 21, 2012, 06:30:32 AM »

another good class, descending into mayhem and mirth and some nice dancing..teaching 'suspension' which I believe ballroomers call hesitation. Is that right ED?

I think here we refer to just 'waiting'.  Something men complain that we make them do in life and then complain we don't do enough in dance...

does your 'waiting' happen as a collection of feet and uplifting of posture ( ie pretty much straight legged)??

i think it may be an overlooked part of tango teaching..

there are never completely straight legs in dancing, it has body rise, ankle rise and softness of the knees but you are on the right track. I am sure someone more qualified can give you a better description
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elisedance
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« Reply #88 on: February 21, 2012, 07:29:05 AM »

I'd like some input on this too but as I see it waiting can occur at the end of any step where you are in ballance and not tranferring weight from one foot to the other - which should actually occur after every step.  Thus, I may be in a pose such as a left foot lunge (definitely not upright!!) but in ballance on my right foot.  And I may be extending my shape but I am also waiting for the lead to the next step.  The wait can be indefinite but obviously my shaping is not so what happens is that the development of the shape slows down to fill the gap - but it never stops.  It can also be imperceptible to the audience since there is still movement - but the lead knows its there, thats what gives him the control to change the step sequence at any point in the dance.

Perhaps DSV will comment?
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If you must leave the house, go build a home...

The limit of your love is also the limit of your art...
skipper
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« Reply #89 on: February 21, 2012, 06:30:24 PM »

I think of it as 'active waiting' not 'anchored waiting'.   In my mind I think what ever ---when ever---how ever----. Afrterall, we need to give the guy time to mack up his mind and transfer his weight.
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